IC Forum Archive

paradoxshift · Posts: 4

Denver, Colorado

Don't bring your pit bulls over.

thatbox · Posts: 816

One of our parishes is getting rid of pit bulls, too. First step is getting all existing ones implanted with microchip tags in thirty days or else, next is banning any new dogs of the breed from moving in or getting older than six months.

Scratchmonkey · Posts: 2229

I find the whole pit bull scare hype wave to be somewhat annoying. Like guns, the immediate reaction is completely kneejerk, as opposed to actually investigating the cause of the problem, which is retarded people creating dangerous situations due to a lack of training and foresight.

I'd like to see us adopt a solution similar to what's done in Germany (owners of 'dangerous' breeds must register their dogs and the dog must pass a yearly aggression test); I wouldn't expect that to fly with our general attitudes toward government involvement in our private lives*.

* - Unless you're having sex with somebody of the same sex, getting an abortion or ingesting an illegal substance. Then it's fine.

Shapermc · Posts: 2450

Scratchmonkey wrote:

I'd like to see us adopt a solution similar to what's done in Germany (owners of 'dangerous' breeds must register their dogs and the dog must pass a yearly aggression test); I wouldn't expect that to fly with our general attitudes toward government involvement in our private lives

That would be awesome. The only problem is that the reason that these dogs end up attacking is because of ignorant people. Ignorant people would not take the dogs in for these tests anyways. Good idea nonetheless.

dhex · Posts: 2963

when dogs are outlawed only outlaws will have dogs.

i wish we lived in a country where people didn't want the government interfering in our lives.

Scratchmonkey · Posts: 2229

Shapermc wrote:

The only problem is that the reason that these dogs end up attacking is because of ignorant people. Ignorant people would not take the dogs in for these tests anyways. Good idea nonetheless.

Well, in theory, if said dog is not registered, the gubmint has the ability to take your dog away and if the dog is involved in an attack, you're going to get hit with criminal charges. This kind of deterrence seems to work in Germany, I'm not so sure it would over here; that's another discussion entirely.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

I've been around pitbulls a long time and used to have one myself and have to say they are kinda freaky dogs.
basically your neighbors are gonna hate you for having one and you're gonna look like a wigger (if you're white) for having one and they can be violent as hell. even when they just play around *they where created to kill other dogs* so they can do some damage and not even mean to.
i have pretty mixed feelings about these dogs, they're pretty cool but at the same time i think they're a huge menace. peoples family pets are like they're kids to them, somebody's overweight Pug might look like a just a mutt to you but its a child to somebody else and a lot of the time these pitts get loose and kill peoples pets. i think thats pretty fucked up.

dhex · Posts: 2963

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

Haven't pitbulls been banned in a lot of towns?

Shapermc · Posts: 2450

dhex wrote:

since we live in the united states of the lowest common denominator, the hands of retards are used to measure the moral weight of all activity.

You give way too much credit to the general public. I know you have seen more and been around longer, but everything I have seen points towards general public being just above a retard. Perhaps living in New Orleans for almost 4 years has made me pessimistic: "New Orleans accounts for 55 of Louisiana's 78 worst schools. More than two-thirds of the school system's fourth-graders do not have basic competence in math."

aderack · Posts: 5018

Scratchmonkey wrote:

I'd like to see us adopt a solution similar to what's done in Germany (owners of 'dangerous' breeds must register their dogs and the dog must pass a yearly aggression test);

Thing is. I understand there's nothing inherently "dangerous" or "aggressive" about these breeds. Actually, pit bulls are supposed to be rather friendly and docile on their own account. They only get dangerous when they're trained that way.

This is according to the San Francisco doggie activists, anyway.

newgameplus · Posts: 5

I volunteer at my city's animal shelter, and our pitbull policy is pretty brutal. The only way a pitbull will leave our facility is if it's reclaimed by an owner who's willing to pay the $250 administrative fee and allow it to be microchipped. But, since pitbull owners don't give a shit about the dog beyond its ability to kill other dogs, it never gets reclaimed.

We even euthanize the puppies. It's harsh, but it starts to make sense when you see the fuckers who come through looking for one.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

dhex wrote:

besides, according to my vet sister, pits are quite nice animals but they have very strong jaws. they're actually not great as guard dogs, though they do tend to hate the shit out of other animals. they are otherwise exemplary pets, except in the hands of retards. since we live in the united states of the lowest common denominator, the hands of retards are used to measure the moral weight of all activity.

they where originally bred to fight dogs but be controllable and docile around their handlers so yeah, they're not gonna be a great guard dog like a pinscher or rott. i've been around enough of these dogs to know that by nature a lot of them are just really unsocial. they might be raised in the greatest environment in a big, loving house but they can still turn out weird.
most pitts are real snippy- get too close inside their "comfort zone" and they'll snap at you. not like a lab or something thats always got a smile on its face that lets you practically use them as a mattress or ottoman half the time.
my dog was pretty good though.. i socialized him a lot- took him to dog beaches and parks all the time. I only had him for a year before I sold him but the entire time I had him I only saw him snarl/raise his lips once- it was at the beach when another bigger pit tried to bite him in the ass. lol

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

Also, pit bulls are ugly as fuck. They deserve to be banned, i say.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Waffen · Posts: 1638

BalbanesBeoulve wrote:

Also, pit bulls are ugly as fuck. They deserve to be banned, i say.

no they aren't, they're gorgeous. their eyes are set in the front of their faces so they often have very human-like expressions. their mouths are huge too so when they smile they are really hilarious looking.
and *nothing* is cuter than a pitbull puppy.

killy · Posts: 162

Ugh. There comes a point where beauty stops being in the eye of the beholder and starts being in the eye of the idiot.

And as far as breed-specific regulations:
http://www.animalfarmfoundation.org/topic.php?id=21&topic=17

icycalm · Posts: 442

Hey Killy we're saving up for your operation don't worry.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

pits are so beautiful in fact they drove this poor young man to commit rape on one: http://www.stunning-stuff.com/read-weird-news-stories/20.html?ci=4

Scratchmonkey · Posts: 2229

I know a couple pit mixes that are literally two of the most 'handsome' dogs that I've ever seen. One's a lab/pit mix and the other is a golden/pit mix. Their personalities are pretty awesome as well.

Then, it's not really the mixes that are usually the problem.

Aderack - It's less that the dogs are 'dangerous' in the sense that they'll attack humans, it's that they're the breeds that, should they attack a human, could possibly kill a human. If you have a poorly-trained Pomeranian that bites, it's unlikely to maim/kill somebody (although it's happened). If you have a poorly-trained pit bull that bites, it's a different set of consequences.

st1nky187 · Posts: 181

hurtmemore · Posts: 17

As always, it all depends on the dog.

Pit bulls came from the original old bulldog breed which was used for bull baiting in Europe. Once the sport was deemed too cruel, some of the dogs were then bred for fighting. This is indeed where the Pit Bull Terrier came from. However, after that was outlawed, a small number of breeders went undeground. The rest began to breed the dogs for the sport of weight pulling. If you find a pit breeder's site and it is hailed as game-bred and a champion in its sport, chances are they mean it can pull half a ton of weight on a cart.

I haven't yet had it cleared up whether aggression towards animals in pit bulls means that an individual pit is more likely to be aggressive, or they are all a fraction more aggressive than any other breed. I'll bet on the former. I've yet to meet a mean one, however, and if I did, I put my bets on it that the owner would be someone I'd like to run over with my yuppie daddy's big SUV.

After volunteering at a shelter and joining up dog forums, I've become convinced no person should be allowed any animal without an IQ test and a fee, because there is one helluva need for quality control as far as pet ownership goes. A lot more than control of what breeds one owns. Still, focusing on just one breed is not effective.

Certainly, as has been pointed out, pits and other "dangerous" have an unfortunate draw to the wrong kind of people. They are to macho thug idiots as burberry is to Paris Hilton. Not a reason to force good owners to go through hell and high water to keep their pets. Consider, also, that all (as far as I can tell) of these laws insist that a dog will be considered a pit unless the owner can prove otherwise, because they've cottoned on to the fact that vets will sometimes lie and pass pits off as something else. But can a layman, or policeman, or even most shelter workers, tell an American Pit Bull Terrier or American Staffordshire Terrier from a Staffordshire Terrier, Argentinian Mastiff, French Mastiff, Cane Corso, or Perro de Presa Canario? How about a boxer mix with a big head? You would be surprised at what can be mistaken for a pit (hint: shaved Scottish Terrier). And keep in mind how many of these dogs there are. They are #3 most popular dog in my city. #1 across the bay in Oakland (yes yes, I know...) Shelters say they take in more pits than any other dog whenever the question has come up.

Neither would it work to ban breeds with potential to cause big damage. If a dog's ability to harm someone is judged, we should get rid of Saint Bernards, Great Pyrenees, Bouviers, and all Molossers. (Although perhaps the point is moot because some places have in fact zeroed in on Great Danes, St. Bernards, and Mastiffs because of their size.)

Most of them are great dogs. And most of the ones that aren't, have someone behind them that fucked them up. And even of the ones one would think would be messed up for life... sometimes turn out to be darlings.

I don't think any anti-pit legislation so far has done anything constructive to improve the situation.

hurtmemore · Posts: 17

Also, to bring up something else relevant: there is a loose hierarchy of "vicious" dogs that one sees when observing public attitudes and breed legislation. At the top is the pit bull, because of the boom in popularity and publicized attacks. Next is, of course, the Rottweiler, because we all know from tv that they're bad dogs. Then is the Doberman, smaller, but it's the same color; also bad dogs used for guarding. Then the German Shepherd Dog: used by police to terrorize black people and a favorite of the Nazis. Big, scary, high bite stats. Then come Akitas, Malamutes, and Siberian Huskies. Chow Chows are aloof, highly unsocial dogs, also high bite stats. Then we move on to Boxers, Shiba Inu, Tosa Inu. The most common dogs to be outlawed, right there. After that, it begins to get rather random. You can see that it's hard to draw a line and say, these dogs are all dangerous as a whole, these aren't.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

hurtmemore is cool

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

I just remembered that my grandfather had a yellow pit bull at this cabin community he used to stay at when he was boozing. She was named Sugar and she was the sweetest dog I had ever met in my life. Her tail was like a whip and it hurt if you got hit with it, which was a high probability because it was always wagging since she loved seeing people. Great outdoorsey dog, she was, and great with us kids.

I think I was seven or eight when I first went out there with family and saw her. I don't think I ever saw her get mean or angry, and she was great to take with you if you wanted to go exploring in the wooded areas around the cabins in case you came across bobcats and needed saving. They buried her under a tree in a clearing when she died, probably eight years ago or so. I kind of miss that dog now that I've thought about it. Damn.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

pits are extremely loyal- especially with kids.
when i sold my dog the people i sold him to had some little kids and when i went over to their place he just sorta took off with them, just kinda joined their club and ran off. they're great w/ kids but w/ all those teeth they'd make me nervous around them (if i had my own).

B coma · Posts: 1455

Clearly, pitbulls can function as perfectly normal and useful members of society

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

for the record, i think the what's being done to pitbulls in many parts of the united states is tantamount to genocide.

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

German shepherds aren't mean. They're the coolest dogs ever.

hurtmemore · Posts: 17

BalbanesBeoulve wrote:

German shepherds aren't mean. They're the coolest dogs ever.

Certainly! They're also the third breed with most bite-related fatalities between '79 and '98 according to the US Center for Disease and Control. So while you think they're awesome, someone else can easily say they kill almost one person per year; the stats are there; they should be banned. And there's the problem with making such generalizations about breeds on the whole.

I do love German Shepherds. I grew up in Poland and every other person there owns one. Mostly because if you don't have one in your yard, your whole house will be stolen. But still. Great dogs.

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

But they're so cute!

edwardappleby · Posts: 129

dessgeega wrote:

for the record, i think the what's being done to pitbulls in many parts of the united states is tantamount to genocide.

Rwanda called. They say, no, not really at all like genocide.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

hurtmemore wrote:

I do love German Shepherds. I grew up in Poland and every other person there owns one. Mostly because if you don't have one in your yard, your whole house will be stolen. But still. Great dogs.

edwardappleby wrote:

Rwanda called. They say, no, not really at all like genocide.

LOL's for all.