IC Forum Archive

aderack · Posts: 5018

Yes. That's... more like what I was anticipating.

Rud13 · Posts: 3277

aderack wrote:

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

I think you've just hit the head on the nail of why I've never really been interested in studying philosophy. Just the other day I started thinking about it and wondering why every time philosophy was concerned all the supposed philosophers started quoting from their favorite text books on the subject. Made me wonder where all the modern philosophers were, kind of, because as it now from the perspective of someone on the outside it looks like nobody has had anything new to say for at least fifty or a hundred years. Which doesn't sound too good.

I started because, you know, philosophy! Neat ideas and new perspectives! New ways of understanding!

I confused everyone in the program because I generally didn't remember names, dates, or page numbers, or precisely who said precisely what (caring little), and yet I'd consistently turn in the best papers and make the best observations in every class, without basing them on anything in particular aside from what was in front of me. My professors kept urging me to enter random junk I'd written into competitions, saying I was close to some kind of a "breakthrough" -- which I didn't bother doing, because it was just nonsense I'd written for class. It's not like I had any investment in any of it.

It got to the point, eventually, of something close to screaming matches in a couple of specific classes, between me and a couple of other people who kept refuting everything I said with some quip from Aristotle or whatever instead of just following the line of reasoning I set out. I can't tell you how frustrating it was. I think I scared that one professor.

I never did quite get my degree, although I have all of the credits to do so. It's just that at the last moment another professor decided to give me one notch lower a grade than I needed in one vital class; he couldn't understand how one of my papers was "philosophical", because, you see, I barely cited anyone.

I just... I couldn't deal with it anymore. No more games. If that's how he wanted to be, then that was his business. I got all I needed.

If my experience of the last two years are anything to go by, I don't think I'd want any job I'd need a second degree for anyway. Or most that I'd need the one for. The "job market" is even more revolting than academia. And that's, really, the only use a degree holds. It's like the business cards they make you flash at trade shows. You can show them all the official ID you want; they won't let you in unless you have a business card. Which says more than it should, about a lot of things.

And once again, my thinking is ridiculously close to Aderack's!

evnvnv · Posts: 333

I went to a 4 year liberal arts college, graduated, and am now attending a community college. I think I have done something backwards.

But being in community college now after going through 4 years of private-school college is interesting. It makes me appreciate both a lot more.

I never went to a giant state school type university, but from what I've gathered from friends and relatives involved at those places, you're probably better off at a good, small community college in a big city (in the state you are from, out of state fees are stupid). They are basically like high school extensions, but they are cheap, have a surprising variety of classes, and seem to be more into the idea of giving students enough space to hold down a job and an outside life. You miss out on dorm life and other "COLLEGE" things, but those things suck so much you are better off without them.

I would recommend a small liberal arts school to anyone for this reason: like dhex said, what you actually study in undergrad is sort of "useless"--at a small school you are likely to have more bizarre variety in the stuff you learn, so you will be likely to acquire some interests that while not lucrative or whatever, will provide you with some kind of mental activity for (ideally) the rest of your life... but not everyone likes the idea of dealing with loans and shit, so I understand anyone who calls bullshit on the attendees of such small (expensive) schools. That being said, with financial aid, loans, and work study, I am not exactly going to be bled dry over the next 15 years. And I know plenty of folks who have gotten away with paying way less than me...

As I am now also in "the real world" (a phrase that has no meaning...) I hear a lot of people who have a lot of bad things to say about college, even from those who went. Obviously an undergraduate degree is not a ticket to a high paying job, or even any kind of job. And yes, it is a lot of money, no matter where you go (unless its free). And a lot of what is referred to as 'academia' is kind of bullshit. But... I like learning about stuff, and I'm quite happy to have spent the past 4 years reading great books, watching brilliant films, learning about fields that technically are not interesting to me at all, and ... being in an environment where messing around with drugs and absurd party extravagance is not a ticket to jail, addiction, or whatever. You wouldn't believe what the addition of a regimented class schedule can do for your ability to stay 'on track' enough to not turn into a total wastoid. And even though I'm sort of "starting over" with a low paying job (minimum wage) and starting at an entirely different school... I'm pretty sure it was worth it!

gunshinji · Posts: 186

I'm just going to school for history and business... major - business/ minor - history.

Mr. Business · Posts: 1530

I'm a sophomore computer science major, and I find college to be mostly a tiresome strain. I guess I'm just tired of going to school, and frankly I'm hoping to be out of here as fast as humanly possible with some good job skills, some decent knowledge, and a degree. I have friends who want to stay in college for some 5-6 years because they love it so much, but this concept boggles my mind. I'd be happy to be out of here in three years, and I will be if I can take enough summer courses for the next two years to fill my requirements.

I gave up on the so-called "college experience" my first semester of freshman year, and thus far nothing has changed my opinion on the matter. People say that college is some sort of developmental time in one's life, but I would argue that it's just the same old grind. College is one of the most soul-sucking experiences of my life, and I will be glad to put it behind me quickly.

Mister Toups · Posts: 4943

aderack wrote:

About a year ago I went back and re-read some of the things I wrote at the time. I honestly haven't a fucking clue what I was talking about. It was all contextual, you see. I don't understand any of the references or terms I used, anymore. Anyway, they really weren't that special. Truly. And that's part of what annoyed me into apathy, I think.

I don't know what they were talking about. I think it's just a cross-disciplinary thing, like applying Hume's ideas to Plato, OH MY GOD! THE GENIUS! DID YOU HEAR WHAT HE DID WITH THAT CHORD?! Something that wouldn't matter to anyone who hadn't been teaching the Nicomachean Ethics for twenty years.

I think I posted a couple of papers and things to my livejournal, somewhere around late 2000 to early 2002. Hell if I'm going to look for them now, though.

This isn't about me, really. It's just about my frustration with a system where I thought I might, you know, learn something. And maybe be able to talk with people about it. Instead, I got... this. This entrenchment, where even a slight outsider perspective is considered both threatening and amazing.

The whole reception I got was "what planet does this guy come from?" just because I wasn't particularly obsessed with anything and instead more generally curious. When you've got a situation where that warrants confusion... well.

You probably should've gone English or Poli Sci. If you take the right classes you get exposed to a lot of the same literature but (on average) from a moderately more sane perspective. At the very least, it's from the perspective of someone who is an "outsider". I've had a lot of really great classes on philosophy in both poli sci and english.

Crazy Bacon Lips · Posts: 783

Rud13 wrote:

I've been offered by a friend who is an RA whose roomate hasn't shown up yet, to room in with him, I'd supposedly get 400 bucks back, but probably wouldn't have a parking space. I'd also be moving a lot closer to my classes, but have community showers and toilets.

Community showers in toilets aren't that bad if you hate cleaning, because other people do it for you. Not having to sop up your suitemate's pube-piss stew is certainly a plus, although I can see how some people might not like showering and shaving and shitting next to a ton of other folks. But larger dorms like that are nice, as there's a level of comraderie you just don't get in a suite-style dorm.

extralife · Posts: 3316

I was never ever interested in school of any sort ever. People looked at me (and still do, and probably always will) and say "You're smart! You should be doing all kinds of things in school!"

I kind of think maybe I was just smart enough not to.

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

extralife wrote:

I was never ever interested in school of any sort ever. People looked at me (and still do, and probably always will) and say "You're smart! You should be doing all kinds of things in school!"

I kind of think maybe I was just smart enough not to.

For reals. You should totally just live at home forevers.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

extralife wrote:

stuff

Yeah, I agree on that. My mother, Mercenary Poppins that she is, set me up to get my highschool diploma through one of those diploma mill places that send you half-assed booklets of text on a subject, put multiple choice questions at the end of the book (you can read the question and then read the text for the answer, at your convenience), and then you phone in and give your answers via an automated system. During the two years that I was "in highschool," I did a few hours worth of work...a week.

From there, college was excellent, because I got into an accellerated vocational school for graphic design. All hands-on projects with Photoshop and sketchbooks, led by teachers who all had part-time jobs in freelance work so they could still be real about what they tought. I'll say that a lot of what I learned there was junk, same as any other form of schooling, but the important things that I learned are very important, and I got a degree in just a year of work that I both enjoyed and was good at.

As it stands, I'd say that I don't remember anything at all from highschool that I didn't already know, and at least half of what I did in college was useless to me. Even considering what little time I had to spend on my "formal" education, so much still turned out to be a waste.

I'd like to develop a better way of doing things, but everything that comes to mind has potential for terrible mind-control indoctrination. Le sigh.

-Psiga

gunshinji · Posts: 186

I suffered the four "proper years" of high school. Didn't learn a thing I didn't already know or remotely wanted to know.

yellowlightman · Posts: 359

Psiga wrote:

As it stands, I'd say that I don't remember anything at all from highschool that I didn't already know, and at least half of what I did in college was useless to me. Even considering what little time I had to spend on my "formal" education, so much still turned out to be a waste.

One of the most important, if not the most important, parts of high school (and middle school... and elementery school) is that it teaches you how socialize and interact with people in a normal fashion. I have yet to meet someone who has homeschooled who doesn't have some for of weird social anxiety, be it over-sensitivity or an unhealthy sense of superiority. That simple interaction with peers on a daily basis goes a long way towards being able to interact with others.

College, if anything, is about growing up and expanding your knowledge. Getting away from your typical home life, meeting new people from different places that don't have the same background as you and finding new interests.

Dakravel · Posts: 125

Regarding college philosophy classes, I find that it depends a lot on the lecturers. I'm lucky enough to be at an institution where we attract a lot of research-oriented philosophy professors and so they're all about finding new ways to think about something or refuting the ideas of contemporary authors and such. The professors I've had in those classes are more than welcome to opposing viewpoints (usually) and will take the time to understand what you're saying rather than dismissing it outright.

As for Aderack's experience with professors requiring citations and whatnot..., I've never ever had that experience in all of my college career and I don't think it's all that common. Undergraduate philosophy papers generally aren't required to make citations whatsoever because the whole point is to see what you, the students, thinks about the matter. It may be the case that you're asked to do a research paper, but those are rare and if you try and do a research paper without, well, research, that's just silly. I think you might have better luck with philo at another school Aderack.

And lastly, I'd hardly say that institutionalized education is the brain-washing machine that some of you might think. Then again, to those who think so I'm probably already a drone of the capitalist machine.

gunshinji · Posts: 186

Regarding the social interaction lessons of high school, I can think of a few people that would disagree. Some people just did have a great social life there and are now truly terrified of people all together, now, they post on forums... not that it happened to me.

IIOIOOIOO · Posts: 91

Scratchmonkey wrote:

I done gradumacated with a degree in linguistics. (2 classes short of a degree in CS, 5 classes short of a degree in geology, 1 class short of a minor in electronic music. I took a lot of classes.)

Are you still rocking the world of testing? Finish your CS degree and go do your grad work in either Linguistics or Computer Science or "Applied Infomatics" and enjoy printing money. There's so much money being dumped on talent for speech recognition, tts, grammar-aware translators etc that you can't help but win.

Scratchmonkey · Posts: 2229

IIOIOOIOO wrote:

Are you still rocking the world of testing? Finish your CS degree and go do your grad work in either Linguistics or Computer Science or "Applied Infomatics" and enjoy printing money. There's so much money being dumped on talent for speech recognition, tts, grammar-aware translators etc that you can't help but win.

That I am.

It's occured to me, especially considering that my Linguistics degree was specialized on semantic-syntactic crossover with a concentration on Computational Linguistics. It's a good fall-back position; honestly, I'd rather be doing what I am now and having fun than doing something that I find fairly boring while earning loads of money. Maybe I'll feel differently once I stick my nose into the housing market and realize what that smell was.

Oh, and I learned a lot in high school. Or at least the last 3 years of it.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

yellowlightman wrote:

One of the most important, if not the most important, parts of high school (and middle school... and elementery school) is that it teaches you how socialize and interact with people in a normal fashion.

I would say that 'normal' is relatively defined, based on the fact that it's statistically average to attend those scholastic penitentiaries. Still, I'll say that I am glad to have had a Boys & Girls Club across the street from me, to buff up on the social skills without worrying about being picked on by jocks and the like.

And yet I'm still an elitist loner! Oho! Well, I always was.

-Psiga

Judge Ito · Posts: 284

Today they chose 12:30, the time when hundreds of students pass through the dining hall hoping to grab a quick bite in the few precious moments between class, to have a goddamned fire drill.

On the plus side, it made me think of Fire.

jutla, a · Posts: 240

I didn't go to middle school. I went to high school for five-and-a-half years instead. It seemed like a learning adventure, at the time. In retrospect, I think it really fucked me the fuck up. As they say.

George · Posts: 1656

I'm starting at the University of Washington in a month. I don't particularly want to go. But I can't particularly think of anything else to do!

I wish pirates were hiring.

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

me, smartblue, and thunder force 6 hung out the other day

IC brings people together!

college!

nICO · Posts: 130

George wrote:

I'm starting at the University of Washington in a month.

That's an odd time to start. I thought most schools started between the second week of August and after Labor Day. Are you done with Fall semester before the New Year?

Scratchmonkey · Posts: 2229

nICO wrote:

George wrote:

I'm starting at the University of Washington in a month.

That's an odd time to start. I thought most schools started between the second week of August and after Labor Day. Are you done with Fall semester before the New Year?

Could be a quarter system. As an example, the academic year at the University of California, Santa Cruz has a Fall Quarter that runs from Sept. 17th to Dec. 8th, a Winter Quarter from Jan. 5th to March 23rd, and a Spring Quarter that runs from April 4th to June 15th.

Instead of taking the 5-6 classes you would per semester, you take 3-4 for a shorter period of time. Seems to work pretty well.

nICO · Posts: 130

Interesting. That does make sense. I'd assume you'd have the same classes every day like summer school in my university, so you get to get a lot more done in a shorter amount of time.

Scratchmonkey · Posts: 2229

nICO wrote:

Interesting. That does make sense. I'd assume you'd have the same classes every day like summer school in my university, so you get to get a lot more done in a shorter amount of time.

Actually, you'd have classes running on a MWF or TTh schedule, with the MWF classes being an hour and 10 minutes and the TTh classes being an hour and 45 minutes.

Usually there would also be an hour-long 'section' that would involve a smaller group meeting with the TA. These were usually mandatory, although they were only really useful for the classes that were actually difficult.

There were exceptions, one of my favorite classes was Soviet Cinema, which met for two hours on MW with a movie on Wednesday and Monday was a lecture on the previous week's movie.

Dakravel · Posts: 125

Quarter systems generally run for 10 weeks and the only classes I know that are everyday are language classes. Generally classes that are only two days a week will have an 1.5 hour lecture instead of just one hour. The system is nice since 10 weeks is short enough that you don't get too bored with classes just because you've been in them forever. However, things also get really hectic with only 10 weeks to learn the material.

I don't think I even start school until the end of Sept. Although really I wish they would take some of my summer break away and put it into spring or winter.

George · Posts: 1656

nICO wrote:

George wrote:

I'm starting at the University of Washington in a month.

That's an odd time to start. I thought most schools started between the second week of August and after Labor Day. Are you done with Fall semester before the New Year?

As scratchmonkey already said, I'm on the quarter system. My first class is October 1st, but my next summer will start much later.

smartblue · Posts: 254

the vinculum gate wrote:

me, smartblue, and thunder force 6 hung out the other day

IC brings people together!

college!

Hey, if we get together again (which we will, probably soonish), I think that will make us a posse.

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

smartblue wrote:

the vinculum gate wrote:

me, smartblue, and thunder force 6 hung out the other day

IC brings people together!

college!

Hey, if we get together again (which we will, probably soonish), I think that will make us a posse.

the louisvillains, perhaps

birusuratsu · Posts: 7

I'm a Sophomore at Florida International University. I was (and technically still am)majoring in Asian Studies. Now in my head i'm undecided.

I'm mostly taking classes I want to take, and am able to focus more intently on them, because there's not as much bullshit as their was last year. I got an art class, a language class, a history, a science, and a psychology class. I dig the whole anti-apathy vibe. It's draining to work on something you don't care about.

Following things that way, i'm not sure if i'm going to graduate. My classes are all over the place. :P

BEIGE · Posts: 208

I am currently studying composition at the Berklee College of Music.

It's amazing how many topics I enjoyed before I started taking classes in them.

This is, of course, my fault, but I am not sure where.