IC Forum Archive

Guardian FINAL · Posts: 1137

Fuck John Edwards. I hereby nominate as the biggest douche in the universe President George Bush. Even if you support the current administration, you still have to agree that the man is a total douche. Let's roll some speech:

About Cindy Sheehan, this douche wrote:

I've met with a lot of families. She doesn't represent the view of a lot of families I have met with.

So why, oh why ever would he want to meet with someone whose view is different?

About the conflicts involved in drafting the Iraq constitution, Douchey wrote:

The fact that they're even writing a constitution is vastly different from living under the iron hand of a dictator. [...] The Sunnis have got to make a choice. Do they want to live in a society that's free? Or do they want to live in violence?

Well, that's not much of a choice, is it? I wonder why people incite violence -- it couldn't possibly be because one person's freedom can sometimes conflict with another's, could it? But I don't think the American people could handle such a complicated observation of the grey areas of life. No, we'd better keep on pretending that freedom is freedom and we are its wielders, the righteous force in our galaxy. I wonder if writing a constitution at gunpoint is vastly different from living under the iron hand of a dictator.

President Douche wrote:

Americans understand the challenges facing the framers of Iraq's new constitution.

No, I don't think they do.

Asked to deliver a load of rhetorical bullshit, Mr. Dousche wrote:

Freedom has contended with hateful ideologies before. We defeated fascism, we defeated communism. We will defeat the hateful ideology of the terrorists who have attacked America.

Yes, let's all keep on believing that terrorism is an ideology we can fight with a war, not a tactic shared by many different peoples with many different forms of government. Afterall, I can't see how it might help to understand who terrorists might actually be or why they might be doing what they are doing.

Wait a minute. When the fuck did we defeat communism?

Like only a douche could, Bush wrote:

A policy of retreat and isolation will not bring us safety. The only way to defend our citizens where we live is go after the terrorists where they live.

Wow. That's kind of brilliant, actually. I mean, I really feel now that withdrawing from a temporarily occupied territory is equivalent to cowardice. And this is all the more clear now that Bush has reminded me that the scary terrorists who were responsible for 9/11 are living in Iraq, waiting to bite me. How silly of me -- I thought that they were from [url=http://rds.yahoo.com/S=53720272/K=egyptian+9%2F11/v=2/SID=e/l=NSR/R=1/SIG=13bl31fhc/EXP=1124912903/*-http%3A//news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20050823/ts_afp/usattacksatta_050823050813] Egypt[/url] and had, you know, killed themselves in their attack.

I'm exhausted. Would anyone else like to present further evidence?

Psiga · Posts: 3990

I don't know what you're talking about. The man is a hero. A modern cowboy, riding. Riding and riding.

-Psiga

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

It's a shame that this Sheehan woman hasn't been getting more exposure. I didn't even know what her story was until just last week, and that was just coming across it on the internet. I haven't heard hide nor hair of her on, you know, actual news networks. Then, when have the news networks ever been about reporting news?

Actually, I'm sorry, that last statement is just me expressing my bitterness that my parents have been sucked into watching the Fox News network for at least three hours or so every fucking night in hopes of catching the latest on that Natalee Hollaway shit that no one else except Fox News covers.

dhex · Posts: 2963

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

Well, there you go. I don't really read the news on the internet either because it's all from the same places. In my eyes there aren't any networks with actual integrity becaues they're all owned by corporations battling each other for ratings and network control.

Then again, I am kind of biased and paranoid about things like that.

dhex · Posts: 2963

yeah, i can tell.

YOUR WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE!

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

Seriously though, fuck Fox News. Weekends it stays on all day. It's like an umbilical cord that can't be cut or something, once it hooks it's claws in.

dhex · Posts: 2963

i don't have cable. hence my serenity. this way when people start talking about fox or superhero cartoons i can pick up my copy of something thick and obtuse and smirk at them. fucking cartoon fox assholes.

somewhat on point, someone (i think it was daily kos) did a whole 10 point open memo to the dems and anti-war groups about how sheehan and his mother need to be turned into symbols (referring to her as mother sheehan, not referring to the son by name in order to prevent individual identification rather than group identification, et al) and i sent it along to a dem friend who often complains about their incompetence. i thought it was a real good list; it's the sort of thing which no doubt will work in some audiences, but thinking about it in terms of genuine manipulation is the first correct step in persuading people. he was horrified, which took me by surprise.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Guardian FINAL wrote:

President Douche wrote:

Americans understand the challenges facing the framers of Iraq's new constitution.

No, I don't think they do.

I don't think any of us do.

I've been surprised the last few times I've turned on the local news here to see pretty extensive coverage of the various protests going on around the country.

Then I remembered where I'm living.

veen · Posts: 131

dhex wrote:

she's all over teh plaz, sir mech. even mr. hitch took a swing.

what the fuck happend to that guy? he used to be cool.

it really frightens me to see such a seemingly great thinker abandon everything he once stood for.

as for the douche subject... welcome to 2002. see also: propaganda, media consolidation, state election rigging (lol Killer 7) - twice!, the ignorance and folly of the average voting person, etc.

dhex wrote:

he was horrified, which took me by surprise.

I think many people are unable to divest themselves of the silly idea that doing the right thing comes before doing whatever is needed to gain power.

as in, the people who want power the most are the last people who should have it. unfortunately the system works exactly that way.

Legal Step · Posts: 1030

Guardian Final that was awesome and by far my favorite post of the week. My disdain for Bush can hardly be put into words at least not without swearing.

A good source of Bush stupidity is:
http://cursor.org/

Guardian FINAL · Posts: 1137

Don't be a fuck, Legal.. I mean, high five. I just snapped after the speech to those veterans and had to say what I have always thought of his manipulative language.

veen wrote:

as for the douche subject... welcome to 2002. see also: propaganda, media consolidation, state election rigging (lol Killer 7) - twice!, the ignorance and folly of the average voting person, etc.

Oh, I know. I first started taking a notice to this country's politics around 2000 or so. It's just that I've been in shock ever since Clinton's term gave way to this era that feels more like a parody or satirical reality simulation than an actual historical moment of America, and it took the Salt Lake City speech on this morning's radio to finally break through my coma of contempt and start making pissy comments rather than just grumbling mightily. It's never too late.

Okay, seriously, I've been writing and protesting Bush for years. I'm not always a fan of extreme liberalism or anything, but when a MoveOn.org email catches my attention (like when they were going to can NPR, probably to build space lasers) I do a lot about it.

I've also watched Bulworth around ten times. Talk about that. Talk about the system, man.

DonMarco · Posts: 565

Bush is proof that anypne can become president of the best country in the known universes besides Vatican City.

U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A! U-S-A!

*ahem* It helps to rig elections and have the name GEORGE w. BUSH.

Point 3! Clinton would never have signed off on the Patriot Act.

Crazy Bacon Lips · Posts: 783

I always feel weird whenever someone gabs about how much they hate Bush, even if I agree with them. It feels passe to hate Bush, like I'm following a fad or something. Also, debate depresses me, because I use logic to back up my arguments, and other people use Jesus Christ and Fox News, which I loathe. I don't even hate Fox News because it's conservative. I hate it because all of its shows would find a comfortable home on SpikeTV or in between episodes of Joey and The Simple Life. My newspaper is conservative, but I still like it because it knows that it's a newspaper, and not an issue of the National Enquirer. Fox News has the uncanny ability to turn tragedy into water-cooler television, and that's pretty fucking disturbing. People watch Natalie Holloway coverage like they're watching the fucking Sopranos, hungry for popcorn and thirsty for blood. Not that other news networks aren't guilty of this, but Fox News is especially bad.

killy · Posts: 162

POLITICS NO

EndlessChris · Posts: 431

Get your politics out of my insert credit

Legal Step · Posts: 1030

What we can't be political?

Insert credit was orignally a site for gaming political refugees, now all the sudden your better than them. EndlessChris I understand your angst, you're not old enough to vote yet.

In another couple years you'll be able to, so pay attention now so you can be informed.

TOLLMASTER · Posts: 1977

Crazy Bacon Lips wrote:

I always feel weird whenever someone gabs about how much they hate Bush, even if I agree with them. It feels passe to hate Bush, like I'm following a fad or something.

In Massachusetts, people who like Bush are becoming a minority. It's scary to actually feel like the public is on your side, because the general populace tends to be misinformed. My uncle, who served in the military, watches Fox News, and has been a Republican all his life, hates Bush. I don't really understand it, but information about what he has done has spread, and I think Bush's reign will end up being the most successful, not for what he's done, but for what he'll cause. After this, I think the public is going to be more politically-centric and involved in the process, instead of it running itself during the Clinton era. Politics just didn't seem that important during Clinton because, well, things were okay.

That's my take, anyway. I also hate Kerry and wanted Ralph Nader to win, so I'm probably a Communist.

EndlessChris · Posts: 431

Legal Step wrote:

EndlessChris I understand your angst, you're not old enough to vote yet.

I'm from Amherst fucking Massachusetts - I get whiny uninformed teenagers talking about politics like they really care every day.

We have a fucking Democrats club, which since the whole school is democrat already, means it's basically "I hate republican fun time."

I hate Bush just as much as everyone else, but the whole thing is so incredibly cliche at this point it'd be nice if someone had a new opinion or idea about what to do at this point.

dark steve · Posts: 3002

I'm voting McCain in 08, god willing.

aderack · Posts: 5018

dark steve wrote:

I'm voting McCain in 08, god willing.

Especially if Hillary runs, yeah, I'm on that. And that seems not entirely unlikely. I'd be inclined vote for him anyway, mind. It's just. The NeoDems are getting as bad as the NeoCons.

Oh the confusing!

I suppose it's good that the parties have collapsed into mush. It's still weird to think that the more progressive (and interesting!) candidate will probably be the Republican.

veen · Posts: 131

McCain is a tool. if he had actually given a shit, he had every opportunity to hurt this nutjob administration during the last election, and get them the hell out of office. even just to take revenge for the dirty tricks the bush camp pulled to knock him out of the 2000 primaries. but no, he gets up on stage with bush, multiple times, hugs and waves and smiles. NOBODY who publicly supported this administration during the last election can have any credibility or integrity to their name.

not that your vote matters. if you live in most states, it doesn't matter, and if you live in one of the few contested states... it doesn't matter. find out who is the secretary of state, and you will know the outcome beforehand.

jesus fucking christ, vote for a third party, or don't vote, or vote for the democrat if you feel like it, but why in hell would you vote for another republican administration? how can that even enter into one's mind, regardless of the candidate?

wouldn't it be awesome to have a female president? just on principle alone?

shit, I wish I could vote for Al Sharpton. he would be a fucking excellent president.

killy · Posts: 162

Legal Step wrote:

What we can't be political?

Insert credit was orignally a site for gaming political refugees, now all the sudden your better than them. EndlessChris I understand your angst, you're not old enough to vote yet.

In another couple years you'll be able to, so pay attention now so you can be informed.

If you call any of what goes on right now with political discussion ANYWHERE -not just on the 'net- informative, you're delusional. The only reason there are so many people going "holy shit, things are completely fucked" is because it literally could not be more obvious.

I'm not saying anyone should just let it go, either. Quite the contrary. But all discussion needs to head towards workable plans for the people to unfuck the US. Everything else is a waste of time.

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

I bet if the US just got the fuck out of the middle east, and stayed out, it might actually stop terrorism.

DonMarco · Posts: 565

dark steve wrote:

I'm voting McCain in 08, god willing.

Kerry.

OH HELL YEAH GO TARHEELS WOOOOOOT!

veen wrote:

jesus fucking christ, vote for a third party, or don't vote, or vote for the democrat if you feel like it, but why in hell would you vote for another republican administration? how can that even enter into one's mind, regardless of the candidate?

Whoa whoa whoa. Don't vote BECAUSE their republican? Shit, who could argue with that? In America, I mean.

veen wrote:

wouldn't it be awesome to have a female president? just on principle alone?

No. Besides being a sexist act, wouldn't it be the largest sexist act a NATION could do? Hillary wants to run? Let her. She wins? Great. Histtory has been made. Now if a Jewish Black Woman runs against her IT WOULDNT MATTER.

Religon doesn't belong in politics.
Race doesn't factor into political education (but into experience).
Gender is overblown.

To get back on subject: Fuck you, veen. You shallow asshole. You're the reason why every married couple in any commercial is the cute, attractive woman who solves some problem the fat husband couldn't.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Sharpton would be the best president ever, just maybe.

I'm totally not kidding, either.

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

Is it 2004 again?

veen · Posts: 131

DonMarco wrote:

Whoa whoa whoa. Don't vote BECAUSE their republican? Shit, who could argue with that? In America, I mean.

well, no, this isn't much of an argument. just more based on the assumption that a republican is guaranteed to be a puppet of corporations and moralists. whereas it isn't such a perfect lock with a democrat. I mean, I would at least like to vote for someone who doesn't openly oppose labor unions and such. is McCain actually progressive, or just less backwards relative to those around him?

DonMarco wrote:

No. Besides being a sexist act, wouldn't it be the largest sexist act a NATION could do?

you mean unlike the rest of human history?

DonMarco wrote:

You're the reason why every married couple in any commercial is the cute, attractive woman who solves some problem the fat husband couldn't.

hey man I fucking hate those commercials, it angers me that this cute girl is portrayed as being with this bumbling idiot. it says that a girl needs to be pretty and nice, but a male just needs to be male, and it's a fair deal.

besides, after witnessing the fact that this particular nincompoop can be president for two terms, what meaning does the office hold, other than a symbolic one? you know bush himself doesn't decide any of that shit, it's all behind the scenes. so if we're going to have a figurehead, I'd damn well like it to be something other than a southern white male.

icycalm · Posts: 442

Sorry to butt in I have a question.

Is it douche or dousche? Because Guardian spelled it both ways.

I've been wondering about this ever since I first joined and was called such by a couple of people who don't even post here anymore.

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

It's douche. Dousche is a typo.

LW Joestar · Posts: 1358

I'm glad we're all thinking for ourselves, instead of believing what Comedy Central tells us to.

Ashura · Posts: 735

But Jon Stewart knows everything.

He was in Big Daddy.

yellowlightman · Posts: 359

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

I bet if the US just got the fuck out of the middle east, and stayed out, it might actually stop terrorism.

Shyeeeaaaaaaah. Just maybe.

ReroRero · Posts: 2148

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

I bet if the US just got the fuck out of the middle east, and stayed out, it might actually stop terrorism.

I doubt it.

108 · Posts: 2600

what the fuck? defeating communism?

holy shit.

i tell you, i can't wait to see the film michael moore makes about GW. it's going to be fucking great. i hear it's just going to be, like, two hours of speech clips.

you know what that would be? fuckin' undeniable, is what that shit would be. no one could see that and say, "well, he's an articulate guy."

fuck, they should make me president.

. . .

hmm.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

ReroRero wrote:

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

I bet if the US just got the fuck out of the middle east, and stayed out, it might actually stop terrorism.

I doubt it.

In America, or in the Middle East?

To my understanding, the 9/11 thing was a sentimental attack. The trade towers were to represent a mosque with twin towers that was hit by rockets during a previous American-led mission, for example. Americans have been responsible for some other interesting things, like parking tanks on their holy grounds, and doing various dirty deals to get oil. Add to this the paper-trail shown that two seperate presidents were briefed on "The Al Qaeda Threat," and it seems pretty clear to me that this whole ordeal could have been nipped at the bud a few times over.

Of course, some people say that Bush let the attack happen as an excuse to get the American people pissed off enough to send them into Iraq. Sure, Iraq didn't fund Al Qaeda, Iraq didn't have nukes, Iraq didn't have bio-weapons, and Iraq didn't have chem-weapons...but Iraq...does...something? I don't know, really. Is it worth the hundreds of billions we've dumped into it? Is it worth the lives lost and wrecked? Is it worth the burden on our minds?

So, had we not shot at their churches, defiled their holy ground, and took advantage of their national assets, we wouldn't have had people trying to send a message to us? Or, at least, had we not voted in presidents who are wrapped up in their own egotistical reindeer games, we might have been able to prevent the "message" from being sent? Oh, I'm not supposed to think about that, am I?

It's cute that America once paid bin Laden to do the same sorts of things to our enemies that he's turned around and done to us. It's cute that America gets to invade some other nation's borders and say that God blessed that decision. Super cute.

God Bless America, everyone! Never forget!

-Psiga

dhex · Posts: 2963

Lestrade · Posts: 817

108 wrote:

you know what that would be? fuckin' undeniable, is what that shit would be. no one could see that and say, "well, he's an articulate guy."

Yeah, no kidding. Moore won't even have to put on that sullen voice this time. Just let the camera roll, and subliminally flash the words

YOUR PRESIDENT IS AN IDIOT

every few seconds.

Maybe if, to counter the suspiciously unaccountable black box voting system, nobody should vote — I mean, for anyone — then the US public can call bullshit when the Rebublicans magically win.

icycalm · Posts: 442

Psiga wrote:

ReroRero wrote:

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

I bet if the US just got the fuck out of the middle east, and stayed out, it might actually stop terrorism.

I doubt it.

In America, or in the Middle East?

To my understanding, the 9/11 thing was a sentimental attack. The trade towers were to represent a mosque with twin towers that was hit by rockets during a previous American-led mission, for example. Americans have been responsible for some other interesting things, like parking tanks on their holy grounds, and doing various dirty deals to get oil. Add to this the paper-trail shown that two seperate presidents were briefed on "The Al Qaeda Threat," and it seems pretty clear to me that this whole ordeal could have been nipped at the bud a few times over.

Of course, some people say that Bush let the attack happen as an excuse to get the American people pissed off enough to send them into Iraq. Sure, Iraq didn't fund Al Qaeda, Iraq didn't have nukes, Iraq didn't have bio-weapons, and Iraq didn't have chem-weapons...but Iraq...does...something? I don't know, really. Is it worth the hundreds of billions we've dumped into it? Is it worth the lives lost and wrecked? Is it worth the burden on our minds?

So, had we not shot at their churches, defiled their holy ground, and took advantage of their national assets, we wouldn't have had people trying to send a message to us? Or, at least, had we not voted in presidents who are wrapped up in their own egotistical reindeer games, we might have been able to prevent the "message" from being sent? Oh, I'm not supposed to think about that, am I?

It's cute that America once paid bin Laden to do the same sorts of things to our enemies that he's turned around and done to us. It's cute that America gets to invade some other nation's borders and say that God blessed that decision. Super cute.

God Bless America, everyone! Never forget!

-Psiga

I wonder what Bill Gates would have to say about this. I still think Bill should run for president.

He is my Hero.

FortNinety · Posts: 4591

108 wrote:

i tell you, i can't wait to see the film michael moore makes about GW. it's going to be fucking great. i hear it's just going to be, like, two hours of speech clips.

you know what that would be? fuckin' undeniable, is what that shit would be. no one could see that and say, "well, he's an articulate guy."

See, that's the thing. There's plenty of evidence pointing towards his ineptness out there already. Hell, he makes more and more practically everyday. And its all out there, for public consumption. Problem is that most folks genuinely do not care.

I hate to sound all old and bitter, but I got off the political soapbox when I realized that I was hopelessly outnumbered, and especially when it became clear that those who are most directly impacted by his bullshit dogma are ultimately too lazy for some reason to actually do anything. Why the hell every single woman, gay, young person, and black person didn't vote to get his ass out of office this past November is beyond me.

dhex · Posts: 2963

a third of the [eligible voting age population] country cares quite deeply (democrats)

a third disagree to varying degrees (republicans)

the other third doesn't give a shit who's president, feeling that republican or democrat, things tend to march along as they do without much change. and an even smaller subset of this third were folks who voted independent or abstained for political/emotional reasons.

so you're not hopelessly outnumbered (especially in new york, obviously) but rather face a communication issue coupled with a somewhat unrefined ideological issue. as for motivating the last third, well, i have no idea. it's certainly not "vote or die" but since i haven't voted in a presidential election since 1996 i'm probably not the best person to ask.

veen · Posts: 131

dhex wrote:

um, i don't know if you're aware of this, but mr. hitchens background is trotskyite.

so he's more going along with the team. I must admit I'm ignorant of his background, I was just basing my ideas on a variety of pieces of his I've read in past, and his stance on current events, which seemed completely incongruent. trotskyism has never made sense to me either, so this should've been expected.

dhex wrote:

the people who make liberals out to be poor babes in the woods are just daydreaming themselves a nice blameless politic - everyone knows how to work an angle at this point.

I don't disagree. I was more talking about the average, powerless liberal, who make the mistake of assuming the same ideology in their party's leaders and representatives.

LW Joestar · Posts: 1358

It's going to be funny when a republican wins in 2008 and everyone starts to realize that the real, functional, adult world is tired of your crap.

veen · Posts: 131

LW Joestar wrote:

It's going to be funny when a republican wins in 2008 and everyone starts to realize that the real, functional, adult world is tired of your crap.

yes, because history has proven, time and again, that the real functional adults among us make the best decisions.

and who better than dubya to exemplify what it means to lead a real functional adult life!

why am I even bothering. just keep watching television and believing everything's right with the world.

dhex · Posts: 2963

one of the problems with manicheanism is that it is reflexively reductionist; everyone assumes that their enemies are not only their mirrored opposites, but are indeed motivated solely by evil (be it sloth or wrath).

it's a bad habit.

Crazy Bacon Lips · Posts: 783

The Republicans won't win in 2008, for better or for worse. Unfortunately, the liberal "anti-mob" has become a mob of its own, and will likely plow over any conservative opposition through whatever means necessary, even if that means pretending to be conservative. It kind of offends me that whenever people think "liveral", they automatically envision Cindy Sheehan and those annoying smelly anarchist kids who put out just as much bullshit propaganda as the people they oppose. It may be common, but it's no less common than conservative stereotypes.

Oh, and a lot of the real adults who live in the real world oppose George Bush. I'm not sure, but I think it was, what, nearly half of the voting populace? Correct me if I'm wrong.

About your Comedy Central comment: clever, but when the best source for logical political opinion is a fucking fake news show, something is very wrong, and it's not the American people.

Guardian FINAL · Posts: 1137

Crazy Bacon Lips wrote:

About your Comedy Central comment: clever, but when the best source for logical political opinion is a fucking fake news show, something is very wrong, and it's not the mental condition of the general populace.

I love The Daily Show, but this observation really does sum it all up.

Anyway, I didn't mean to create a political thread, guys. I knew it would become one, but I just wanted to blow steam about Bush's manipulative comic book language. I don't know if that's an apology or what. No harm in good argument among intelligent people, I guess.

Guardian FINAL · Posts: 1137

Ooh, this exciting opinion just in!

Ayn Rand Insatitute Press Advisory
2121 Alton Parkway, Suite 250 Irvine, CA 92606

Aug. 24, 2005

Why We're Losing the War--Four Years Later

What: A talk explaining why the war on terrorism is being lost

When: Wednesday, Sept. 7, 7 p.m., Eastern Time

Where: New York University’s Kimmel Center, Room 900-series, 60 Washington Square South

Who: Dr. Yaron Brook, executive director of the Ayn Rand Institute

The latest attacks on London prove, once again, that America and its allies have failed to stop the scourge of Islamic terrorism. Four years after Sept. 11, our troops still die in both Iraq and Afghanistan, while our enemy’s bombs continue to explode in cities around the world. Why is this happening?

In World War II, America and its allies needed less than four years to eradicate the threats posed by the mighty militaries of Germany and Japan. So, what is stopping us now from annihilating the forces of Islamic totalitarianism?

Dr. Brook will argue that the answer is to be found in the realm of morality. It’s the Bush Administration’s appeasing, self-destructive policy that has made this so-called War on Terror not able to be won. From the dishonest naming of the war to the cowardly choice of countries to target to the self-sacrificial way we have fought--our government’s actions indicate a moral unwillingness to pursue America’s genuine self-interest and so the enemy’s swift destruction.

After examining the White House’s failing policy, Dr. Brook will present his idea of what a war in self-defense would actually look like, and he will explain what is urgently needed today, if America is to achieve victory tomorrow.

### ### ###

ARI executive director Dr. Yaron Brook is available for interviews.
Contact: Larry Benson at larryb@aynrand.org or 800-365-6552 ext. 213.

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

Guardian FINAL wrote:

I didn't mean to create a political thread, guys.

I think it's kind of sad how people don't want to have anything to do with political discussions these days. I mean, I don't like it when one pops up because it's always fuel for a flame war or an argument, but I always learn something new each time and am a better person for it. A couple of guys blew off my little comment on the last page, about getting out of the mid east. That doesn't really convince me of your stance, treating me like an idiot and blowing me off, even if that's how you perceive me. Edumacate me, fellas, it's what makes these kinds of discussions fun. I promise not to flame if you don't.

Despite how painful both can be, I think discussing politics and religion are important because they offer new perspectives that we wouldn't otherwise see. People never like to talk about anything important because they have too much of an emotional investment in it, I think. Forget emotions, let's try rational thought and reasonable discussion. It's possible, or at least it used to be.

I largely don't discuss politics much anymore because it seems like people get too emotional over it, and all too often it looks like people are just content to pick sides and duke it out like it's a competition or something. In my mind, that just can't be right but it's all I see. Perhaps internet forums just aren't the place for political/religious discussions? If not here, then where?

Also, one last thing that doesn't have much to do with the talking at hand but it's been on my mind: I think we should ditch the electoral college and go back to One-Man/One-Vote. I say this knowing full well that the average joe doesn't know jack shit about politics, and I think if every mans vote actually counted like it should politicians and those running for public office would be a bit more honest about things. Then, we might also end up voting in the biggest deceptor in the history of the nation so what do I know?

In conclusion, who's in favor of a more decentralized government?

Guardian FINAL · Posts: 1137

As Dave Chapelle pointed out, quite keenly, on one of his shows, it is highly ironic that people in America, the epitome of Democracy, are socially petrified of discussing politics, lest they might offend someone. It's the same reservation as people once had about religion. If we could change that, imagine how much stimulating discussion and increasing awareness might come about.