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shnozlak
Posts: 704
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:56 am Post subject: |
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nocturnedelight wrote:
I wanted to post many different things, but whenever I type something up, I delete it.
Instead, I'm going to post a "worthless" entry.
(P.S.)
[this entry is oh-so secretly deep]
I delete 20 posts for every one I dont.
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I almost deleted this one too. |
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winkerwanker
Posts: 2414
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 10:58 am Post subject: |
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| I blame myself for all this. |
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Diplocephalus
Posts: 863
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:02 am Post subject: |
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winkerwanker wrote:
I blame myself for all this.
On the contrary! I'm to blame! |
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Rud13
Posts: 3277
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'll read your thread when I get the time Mr. Mechanical.
I have a feeling you say things that need to be said. |
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Psiga
Posts: 3990
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| He does. |
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Maztorre
Posts: 1175
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Come to #insertcredit where your wildest dreams will come true. Why, just today I put together a custom soundtrack for Outrun2006 with the assistance of the lovely Francis. Sync-Swim pretty much hit the nail on the head about #ic being IC Omake. I'm going to give aderack an erection by dubbing IC "King of Fighters" and #ic "Fatal Fury".
This is the best "state of IC" thread ever because it is quite positive in tone instead of the usual "this place sux now" bullshit. I mean, there are even actual suggestions being made! It also helps that it's mostly true. Maybe we should all post while drunk.
Conclusion: There is more than enough HEART and BURNING GUTS in IC. See: James, TOLLMASTER, Mr Mech, Guardian, DAIS. Winker I won't name-drop you since I think you have too much ego, flaunting the fact that you are published in The Gamers Quarter at every turn. It is for your own good, brother.
...
if anyone's to blame it is rya ok there i said it |
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Mr. Mechanical
Posts: 1890
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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Hey look this topic is still here. Great.
Okay, I'll make this quick because I want to avoid the same old tired talking points that get brought up with topics like this. Yeah, I can just leave if I don't like it, and I've almost done that several times but I keep coming back for some reason. It's like others have already said here, there's really no other place out there like this one. I'm not talking about making drastic changes to the way things are, just that everyone put a little more thought into what they post. I proposed propping up the importance of Post of the Week as a measure to do just this. A little something like that can go a really long way in places like this, I feel.
The problem is a a lack of morale, as far as I can see it. There is no leadership, no organization, and therefore no direction. We don't really have a pet project that's fun for everyone to participate in. Post of the Week had that potential, and has mostly squandered it. Thus my frustration and call for action. No need to make anything mandatory, just reorient yourself in how you view things around here. Maybe you're not at all unsatisfied with anything. That's fine then, just keep doing what you're doing. I'm happy for you. If you are unsatisfied however, then the first step is making a conscious effort to change, not the forums in general, but yourself. Take one out of ten posts you make and tell yourself that that one will be pure Post of the Week material.
Or we could try group activities, like take a week where everyone tries to dig up as much information on some small, obscure game company as possible and then compile all that information into a single thread. Something that might be useful to the outsider looking in. Fucking Konami Week and The IC Game Club are great community building ideas and often fun to participate in, yet the only happen once in a while (or in the case of FKW, once a year). Yeah, FKW is kind of stupid, but it's also a good chance for everyone to step up and say "This is our house. The house that we built." But I'm only one guy with a few ideas, and one person can never change the direction of an entire forum. Change has to come from within.
So I ask you, Insert Credit, to look within yourselves and ask yourselves if it is truly change that you seek.
Edit-I'm also really disappointed that none of you took up my challenge to read the post while chugging beer and then posting. I was really hoping someone would do that. I'm also disappointed that no one has photoshopped my avatar onto a crucifix because I was really throwing myself up on the cross in that first post there, wasn't I?
I used to do the IRC thing but I fell out of it. Not that it wasn't wacky or fun enough, because it was, but it just didn't stimulate me the same way a good seven page thread on this forum can. There was also a lot of ego being bandied about, which is a lot easier to deal with and ignore in a place that isn't happening in real time. |
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winkerwanker
Posts: 2414
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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Guys i'm not going to lie the first thing i did upon opening this thread was ctrl-f ing my name.
Maz i can't help being so IN DEMAND ok. |
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Hot Stott Bot
Posts: 2097
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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winkerwanker wrote:
Guys i'm not going to lie the first thing i did upon opening this thread was ctrl-f ing my name.
Ctrl-f?
All good users of all good browsers just hit forward slash. |
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Psiga
Posts: 3990
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Hot Stott Bot wrote:
winkerwanker wrote:
Guys i'm not going to lie the first thing i did upon opening this thread was ctrl-f ing my name.
Ctrl-f?
All good users of all good browsers just hit forward slash.
I am a good user of a good browser! ^_^ |
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Mr. Business
Posts: 1530
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Mechanical wrote:
Edit-I'm also really disappointed that none of you took up my challenge to read the post while chugging beer and then posting. I was really hoping someone would do that. I'm also disappointed that no one has photoshopped my avatar onto a crucifix because I was really throwing myself up on the cross in that first post there, wasn't I?
Thinkin' and drinkin' don't mix. Don't ever tell yourself otherwise. If you really want organization, then sober posting is a must.
Also, as a courtesy to the lazy, I made a numbered cliff-notes version of the opening post in this thread.
01. Mr. Mechanical opens be stating that we (the IC forum members) have started acting less smart in order to appeal to the puerile "internet" element.
- Mr. Mechanical finishes a drink.
02. Mr. Mechanical posits that discussion has stagnated amongst old members, and therefore we need new members. Problem: new members are not informed of what has been discussed, so they discuss things that have already been discussed, and those discussions are pale imitations of the old ones.
03. Mr. Mech explains that there are far too many discussions of the "Game X vs Game Y" sort, and that these discussions are worthless, kill threads, and basically suck. He makes some references to debate clubs in a negative context.
- Mr. Mechanical finishes a drink.
04. Mr. Mechanical relates his life story about being a C student who was taught to achieve something thanks to INSERT CREDIT. The implication of this is that we must challenge ourselves, because the nature of Insert Credit is to challenge.
05. Some opinions are expressed about Guardian FINAL. Mech states that Guardian used to seem like he "didn't get it" but now he posts threads and nobody reads said threads, much less responds to them. Mech also makes a few references to shamefulness and the Dark Ages. He then goes on to reiterate a previous point, stating that he thinks people aren't making "smart" posts because of the damning external internet nerd element.
06. He states in bold that, "Most people on the internet are immature adolescents with inferioty complexes." He chalks the inferiority complex up to being the catalyst for an internet backlash against Insert Credit.
- Mr. Mechanical has finished all four beers and decides to consume a minibar tequila bottle (2 shots in size).
07. Mech accuses people who call IC "pretentious" of not knowing the meaning of that word in the first place. He claims that the people who let the word fly are the most likely to be harbouring asinine pretenses, along with an inability to accept the ideas of others (I'm having to take liberties with the paraphrasing here). He claims that while Guardian FINAL might be considered pretentious by some, he at least has heart. He proceeds to applaud Guardian for standing up to the "self-induced stagnation" of the modern videogame. He then makes a reference to Hunter S. Thompson.
08. Mechanical recounts how, in a sleep deprived state, he had a big idea about an Aeon Flux game. He ultimately disregards his idea, since it would probably run contrary to what the show's creator, Peter Chung, had in mind for the characters.
09. Mech then tells us to disregard the previous paragraph or so and directs our focus to the dead Post of the Week thread.
- Mr. Mechanical drinks rose-flavored tequila and Dr. Pepper.
10. Mr. M then makes an exhortation to Rud13 to resume the Post of the Week thread, but in modified format. He declares that Post of the Week should be, "from the fucking heart and honest with itself." He also expresses disapproval over the way that Post of the Week was formerly run, wherein it basically applauded short, witty posts.
11. Mr. Mechanical boldly calls for action from INSERT CREDIT. He declares that he wants people to challenge themselves more and become better people through their posting habits (?).
12. Mr. Mechanical then goes on to talk about how loves forum members like his own sperm, and frankly I have no clue what the fuck. He possibly makes a biblical reference to having sex with whores? This is a pretty pained paragraph.
13. Mech relates a story about some drunk asshole talking about a Nirvana song.
14. Mr. Mechanical finally admits that he has run out of steam, alcohol, and cigarettes; he decides to end the rant.
15. Mr. Mechanical ends the rant, saying goodbye to Insert Credit.
ADDENDUM: Mr. Mechanical doesn't actually leave the "Insert Credit Scene."
Now even a half-illiterate person can follow the topic!
Edit: While we're on the subject, did I already ask whether this was the first drunken post to make it to General Burning Fest? If not, then I'm asking it now. |
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FortNinety
Posts: 4591
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Mechanical wrote:
Yeah, I can just leave if I don't like it, and I've almost done that several times but I keep coming back for some reason. It's like others have already said here, there's really no other place out there like this one.
I didn't mean go to another message board in my earlier response, I meant something more towards finding something else to do with your time than be on a message board period. You obviously mean well, but your dissatisfaction with the way things are seem to run pretty deep, at an almost personal level. And henceforth, you're sorta asking a lot from a bunch of strangers who just want to exchange thoughts and wacky one-liners in regards to video games. A lot. |
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winkerwanker
Posts: 2414
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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why resurrect the post of the week thread?
wasn't it inspired by a throwaway tim comment that rud13 was compelled to make real due to his nonsexual infatuation? |
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Mr. Business
Posts: 1530
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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winkerwanker wrote:
why resurrect the post of the week thread?
wasn't it inspired by a throwaway tim comment that rud13 was compelled to make real due to his nonsexual infatuation?
Yeah, I had been under the impression that Post of the Week was created almost entirely with the purpose of putting a silly graphic on funny posts. |
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Rud13
Posts: 3277
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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Your right. Also, I find there is a specfic source of internet on these forums I'd like to see stopped. But everyone already knows that.
Now I ask this, where did Karoshi go? |
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winkerwanker
Posts: 2414
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| do you mean toups? |
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Mr. Mechanical
Posts: 1890
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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FortNinety wrote:
I didn't mean go to another message board in my earlier response, I meant something more towards finding something else to do with your time than be on a message board period. You obviously mean well, but your dissatisfaction with the way things are seem to run pretty deep, at an almost personal level. And henceforth, you're sorta asking a lot from a bunch of strangers who just want to exchange thoughts and wacky one-liners in regards to video games. A lot.
I wouldn't say it's personal, though I can see how it might come off that way. For the record, I have been doing other things with my time. Getting out more, going back to school, making plans to move out of my parents house next year, etc. "Choosing life, and then living" to make a videogame reference.
However none of this means that we shouldn't hold ourselves to higher standards in some regards.
Also, I hereby nominate Mr. Business to do cliff notes versions for every drunken rant I post from now on. I'll clarify the pained paragraph while I'm here too. Basically what I was saying with the reference to sperm and Kleenex and whores was that we here handle our thoughts and ideas like we handle our sperm, meaning we just flush them down the toilet regularly without regard to what any of it actually means to do so. It was probably improper to refer to forum members as MY sperm, when I was really trying to say how we are ALL sperm. Or our ideas are. Or something. Yeah, I was kind of drunk by that point so I'm not too clear just what exactly was really running through my mind.
Also the comment about Aeon Flux and such was me contrasting myself with Guardian's passion to get his ideas expressed and understood.
winkerwanker wrote:
why resurrect the post of the week thread?
Because it has a lot of potential that it isn't living up to. Whether it started out as a joke or not is neither here nor there. It could be one or many good things we could be doing to stimulate the forums more. |
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Mr. Business
Posts: 1530
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Mechanical wrote:
Yeah, I was kind of drunk by that point so I'm not too clear just what exactly was really running through my mind.
Mr. Business wrote:
Thinkin' and drinkin' don't mix. Don't ever tell yourself otherwise.
It's a Mister Mister battle.
Actually, I got the cliff-notes idea while reading a Guardian thread because those things go shooting off into all directions before I can even find a unified argument. It's no fault of yours Guardian, but that's the way these things go, I guess. |
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Mr. Mechanical
Posts: 1890
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Business wrote:
Thinkin' and drinkin' don't mix. Don't ever tell yourself otherwise.
Yet surprisingly I have gotten more comments on how lucid and articulate I am through this post than I have in the past year. |
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Psiga
Posts: 3990
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I generally agree with the no-drinky-posty sentiments, but this was surprisingly great. |
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antitype
Posts: 1148
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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OK, so I read the full original post and then skimmed the rest of the thread, and I suppose I have a few brief things to say.
I've been guilty of indulging in the anti-intellectualism a bit lately, for a number of reasons. First of all, I'm frustrated with a lot of things in my own life right now and I already feel challenged enough — I enjoy the release of having a few drinks, putting on some music, and making some dumb posts to these forums. It seems like other have been enjoying this along with me, but you have put me to shame, Mr. Mechanical. I suppose I should thank you for this, because I need to be whipped back into shape. I don't know anymore whether I'm rebelling against myself or merely becoming complacent.
Another reason I've backed off on the analysis is that, well, as much thought as I put into anything, it seems like aderack or Tim have already said it. They've probably put it much more incisively than I could as well. I still want to be a part of this, because I was heading in this direction on my own before I joined these forums at the end of last year, but admittedly a lack of recognition has discouraged me. The trail has been blazed and all I can do is dance around on the hot coals.
My writing sucks. People in these forums have been quick to point this out, whether or not I'm actually trying — this is not very encouraging. I managed to get something published in TGQ, but I can't even look at it now. Even so, I want to forge ahead and try to improve myself. Maybe I'll find a unique voice and enough confidence to really step up to the plate. Anyway, while I may be concerned about whatever it is I'm doing with my life, none of this is really about me. It's about something some of us believe in, which Mr. Mech has demonstrated. So I applaud him. |
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Baron Patsy
Posts: 573
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I guess I'm kind of guilty of the shittification of the forums/the Axe. I don't ever really add anything useful or insightful, and the topics that I make are usually really fucking stupid and useless.
The reason that I don't try to post anything insightful is because, quite honestly, I don't feel like anything I would have to say would be useful to the conversation, and I don't feel like I can think at the level of most of the people here. Compared to you guys, I'm a whimpering idiot flailing his arms around a dark room and shouting randomly. |
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Rud13
Posts: 3277
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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I thought that was TDS.
Don't you respond to this TDS. |
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the drunken samurai
Posts: 4645
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Rud13 wrote:
I thought that was TDS.
Don't you respond to this TDS.
sup
but the difference between me and patsy is that i just really dont fucking care most of the time. |
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winkerwanker
Posts: 2414
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| rud13 do you hate TDS more than me? :( |
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the drunken samurai
Posts: 4645
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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winkerwanker wrote:
rud13 do you hate TDS more than me? :(
sorry winker,i got you beat |
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vision
Posts: 472
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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antitype wrote:
...a lack of recognition... My writing sucks...
To semi-steal from Mr. Mech.,
Reading antitype made me realize that I did not challenge myself enough.
That's not exactly how I would put it, as it lends more to "vision is an antitype fanboy" than simply that I greatly respect your writing and analysis of music, games, films and literature (as well as their application/relation to "real life"), especially the connections between one form of entertainment to another.
It speaks to me, in that I constantly draw comparisons between feelings I get from a stage in a video game, or one scene in a film, etc. I just have a much harder time writing about them. You have a great way of clarifying many an elusive trope, grabbing in a net and taming them in such a way that anyone can spend a little time getting to understand them.
Nevermind me picking up games I haven't played in ages (how are you doing in Skies, by the way?) or adding to my must listen/play/watch/read list based on your posts here, in your journal, or the bit of holy respite that is dailyvideogame... Nevermind me joining this ridiculously awesome forum based on your suggestion... Beyond enjoying your "work", it reminds me that I have a lot of unused potential that I'd like to bring out in a manner resembling that which Mr. Mechanical was hinting at/reminiscing of. It is something at which you, antitype, are miles ahead.
(A bit of dicksuckery, to be sure, but let my above lack of flippancy show that I am serious.) |
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Pijaibros
Posts: 968
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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antitype wrote:
My writing sucks. People in these forums have been quick to point this out, whether or not I'm actually trying — this is not very encouraging. I managed to get something published in TGQ, but I can't even look at it now. Even so, I want to forge ahead and try to improve myself. Maybe I'll find a unique voice and enough confidence to really step up to the plate. Anyway, while I may be concerned about whatever it is I'm doing with my life, none of this is really about me. It's about something some of us believe in, which Mr. Mech has demonstrated. So I applaud him.
That is one of the nice things about a forum. Who cares if your writing sucks. Eventually you'll find your style and then you can actually take it to print (if you wish), as some others around here have. Think of this as a sparring arena, your training grounds.
It's sometimes easy to take it personally since this place actually seems to make the most sense in most of our lives. Since relocating, I've found it difficult to find a friend who I can relate to and yet not loathe at the same time (except when throwing back a few, then it's all in good fun). Most of the people in my life are now married/in a commited relationship. I'm sure some of us are in similar situations of trying to find solid footing. At the very least this place is like a home base of sorts. Where we can actually sort of relate to one another even though the rest of the world is off doing their thing. Until something dumb happens and then we talk about it here and share a laugh or five.
AMIRITE Sherman?
This is our Cheers
tollmaster wrote:
I had conceived to get people to stop thinking about their posts and just post.
I like this, we should just fucking do it. |
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finnagain
Posts: 181
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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antitype:
aderack and 108, they're like, savants. rogers can whip together 1500 words about the game he's playing or the band he's going to interview that are both coherent and edifying in about 12 minutes. It's seriously not fair to use that as your entry standard. aderack is much more careful in his writing, but when he writes something he's thought out -- well. The Phantasy Star Collection and Zelda: Wind Waker articles are my favorite IC reviews. Tim can digress so far from a central theme in the older reviews that it's hard to follow - although he ties everything together, eventually. Well.I'm a huge aderack fan. He also has wonderful memory recall. I can't remember the names of my roomates; he remembers exactly who developed what sega/konami game, no matter how obscure that game is.
I'm beginning to think that the biggest problem might not be apathetic posters, but just apathy towards the videogame industry. There's no one game everyone has just bought, right now. There's no serendipitious moment where everyone seems to be playing the same game. It's been, what, a month since Toups played Final Fantasy VIII, which was a thread I lurked on for a while because I was so entertained by it.
Although, I can't remember if I was entertained by the insights about that game the thread brought forward, or because Final Fantasy VIII is an entertaining game in principal, and a somewhat stupid game in practice. |
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dark steve
Posts: 3002
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Lots of forum antipathy tends to spring up when releases are slim and news is scarce. |
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simplicio
Posts: 505
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Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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1)
Wilkes wrote:
All the guys who used to do that stuff on here are, uh, getting PAID to do it now.
Exactly. And many of those who aren't yet would like to be, and my guess is that much discussion is kept off these forums cause so many of us have this great idea they want to get published in TGQ or The Escapist or GSW or somewhere, and they're afraid that posting about it beforehand means it will all be common knowledge and redundant by the time it comes into proper e-print. I know I'm guilty of this, at least.
2)
I came late to the game, actually from TGQ (which I still prefer just due to general attitude and less ego), not really posting till sometime last fall. I don't post that much compared to you regulars but I lurk pretty well, except I only frequent General Burning and Real Bout. I spent an hour in the AXE once and I'll never go back; it seems to me that it's there for ego and in-jokes, neither of which are valuable to me. I'm conflicted about it really; I like that it's there to defer some of that element from the main forums, but I dislike that its existence seems to make people feel validated in that mode of behaviour everywhere. I also understand that there are good and creative things to be gleaned from it, but it's not worth it to me to seek them out. That's why we have mods to move threads around, I guess.
3)
Yeah, there's a stagnation of ideas here that's part of the problem. You know, I was thinking it centers around known factors like MGS and Mother and the other hot IC/tim trends (not Killer7 though, cause that makes us think), but that got me thinking. You know, FKW throws a lot of the worst of this place around, with one-upmanship and inflated internet personalities and trendhopping and the like, but it also produces some of the best work here. I mean, besides Chaz's epics, you get stuff like the awesome Enthusia thread, and for the whole week people are just so attentive to everything that what would otherwise get 4 short responses before being forgotten gets a great meaningful discussion going. So I really like this new post of the week idea, if people will actually resolve to approach it with that same kind of integrity and intensity.
4)
On a more personal note, antitype you're one of the few people here whose posts I make an extra effort to read fully, and one of 3 whose personal websites I check now and again. Maybe it's just cause of the music thread and that being the only place on the internet where I talk about music and you being the person there I most identify with, but still, there's some recognition for you. I respect you. It's still not the "sup antitype" you're looking for, I guess. |
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Pat the Great
Posts: 122
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:04 am Post subject: |
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simplicio wrote:
Exactly. And many of those who aren't yet would like to be, and my guess is that much discussion is kept off these forums cause so many of us have this great idea they want to get published in TGQ or The Escapist or GSW or somewhere, and they're afraid that posting about it beforehand means it will all be common knowledge and redundant by the time it comes into proper e-print. I know I'm guilty of this, at least.
This caught my attention, re: the whole writing thing.
If you have an idea for an article that you think would be rendered completely useless by a forum discussion about it, odds are...it probably wasn't a very good idea for an article anyway. Unless you can come up with an amazing angle for it on your own or something, you might as well start a thread going to see what other people think of your idea. A lot of the stuff I've ever written was inspired by forum posts. For example, I wrote an article on Metal Gear a few months back that was largely driven by feedback on a journal that I posted here more than a year ago.
Besides, just because something shows up on the IC forums hardly means it's 'common knowledge'. TGQ shares a mildly incestuous relationship with IC, it's true, but The Escapist? I don't even know how many people here READ the damn thing, considering how little people mention its articles, and most of that is Mr. Szezezeezezepaniak plugging his own stuff in his sig (which happens to be good stuff!). Take a look at the Editorial Calendar sometime (it's on their website) and you'll see just how different IC's focus is.[/list] |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:25 am Post subject: |
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Pat the Great wrote:
I wrote an article on Metal Gear a few months back that was largely driven by feedback on a journal that I posted here more than a year ago.
Dude. I remember that. Is your article available online anywhere? |
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Psiga
Posts: 3990
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| Oh, and the authors of IC who've moved on to get money would regularly hit the forum with the nascent concepts behind what would ultimately become articles. So don't let that hold you back. |
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Pat the Great
Posts: 122
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:59 am Post subject: |
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internisus wrote:
Pat the Great wrote:
I wrote an article on Metal Gear a few months back that was largely driven by feedback on a journal that I posted here more than a year ago.
Dude. I remember that. Is your article available online anywhere?
Yup.
here. |
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FortNinety
Posts: 4591
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| So now everyone's feeling guilty over their lack of being an intellectual or something? Oh Jesus... |
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antitype
Posts: 1148
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:30 am Post subject: |
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simplicio wrote:
It's still not the "sup antitype" you're looking for, I guess.
It's much better than that! The "sup" greeting around here is about as grating as constant ass-patting. Thanks to you as well, vision! All these words of encouragement are appreciated.
(I haven't been able to play Skies recently since my TV is on its way out. This means that I also cannot finish MGS3S, I cannot resume my progress in SMT: Nocturne, which I have been meaning to return to for the longest time, and I cannot even try the copy of Space Channel 5 that I just bought for $8! I have started to play Grim Fandango on my PC, though. I'm even considering picking up Half-Life 2 or Oblivion, though I have doubts about how well they'll run on this machine.) |
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antitype
Posts: 1148
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: |
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FortNinety wrote:
So now everyone's feeling guilty over their lack of being an intellectual or something? Oh Jesus...
Well, I can't speak for everyone else, but when I'm not challenging myself I begin to feel apathetic and depressed. |
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FortNinety
Posts: 4591
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: |
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| All I'm saying is that I challenge myself in other parts of my life everyday, so when it comes to forum board banter, so I really have no need for such a lofty goal. |
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jutla, a
Posts: 240
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I just want to say that starting to read these forums a year and a half ago was like a rush of intellectual excitement. I strove to improve my writing and to communicate with people about videogames and to reach some kind of deeper understanding of them. I developed meaningful relationships that made me feel good about myself; I began to feel like there were people in the world I could relate to and have the kinds of bizarre savantesque conversations with that I generally am not able to have with anyone I have met in the real world.
Now, though, some kind of switch has been flipped off in my mind. I don't have any real desire to read the forums here, and when I do it's the Axe first, this place next, and the actual place where videogames are discussed third. I'll sometimes start writing a post in response to something in the games forum, and then I'll stop halfway, solely out of disinterest and apathy and not wanting to force myself to finish because that would just be going through the motions.
It's part of why I didn't submit anything to the most recent TGQ, either. I mean, yes, there was schoolwork, but I was also working on an article and it wasn't gelling and I asked myself why and I realized it was because it was just some kind of potboiler piece or some bullshit that I didn't really care about enough to write with conviction or interest.
Either it's something intrinsic to the games or just something with me. I....you know. They're Fucking Videogames. Which, I mean, doesn't mean you shouldn't take them seriously; no, on the contrary. But they're still Fucking Videogames. They don't seem that important, you know? After the forum crash here, people have been discussing the same things over and over again. I don't feel like I have anything to add. It's all too much intellectualization for its own sake in the Guardian sense (sorry man YOU KNOW I STILL LOVE YOU). It gives me a headache. I mean, gamefaqs etc. also give me a headache. Anything that has anything to do with videogames gives me a headache. Even playing them gives me a headache, these days.
It may be a funk. I don't know. It would be nice to be able to play and think about games again but I can't bring myself to do it. I am too tired. These days I talk to people over the instant messenger thing when I feel like talking to people over the instant messenger thing, and I browse the forums if I feel like browsing the forums, which is much less often, and all the while I keep yawning and shaking my head and trying to appreciate the weak watery melodies strewn all across the album that is this forum and I wonder if they are actually weak and watery or if I just think they are because that's how I feel.
I mean, again. It's maybe not the videogames. Something within me, myself, is slowing down. It's kind of weird. A bit scary. I wish I could just have a very long period of responsibility-free alone time. Say, one hundred years. After that I'd be fine. |
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antitype
Posts: 1148
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: |
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The crush-girl is poisoning your mind, Jutla!
Anyway, I just wrote something to nocturnedelight via PM and thought it would be pertinent here:
You know what's weird about all this? I remember encountering Tim and aderack on LJ years ago — like, long before insert credit was even around, at least to my knowledge. It was probably just being started. I never bothered to add them to my friends list at the time, but they were "friends of friends," so to speak. I never found the people they were friends with (that I knew) all that interesting, and so by association I presumed that they weren't all that interesting.
Then, four years later, someone shows me Tim's "literature of the moment" article, and it completely eclipses everything I'd recently been trying to do on my own. I decided to view this as a challenge — not something to try to emulate, not even necessarily something to surpass (because how do I compete with some guy living in Japan, working for Sony, being paid to lie and doing it extremely well?), but something to be inspired by in my own way. I started thinking about things like "killing the Buddha," and realizing that maybe I shouldn't even be participating in these forums at all, because just as much as they inspire me, they deflate me. I have enough shit going on in my own life as it is.
I think I want to stick around anyway. I still see a lot of . . . potential here.
Maybe that helps me to uncover more potential in myself! |
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FortNinety
Posts: 4591
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:47 am Post subject: |
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jutla, a really put everything nice and crystal clear.
Hey, sitting around and talking about what games we'd like to make is cute and all, but it gets old. And a tiny bit gay. Hell, I fucking design games (on occasion), and its something I don't really enjoy.
Its like when I hung out with film majors and everyone just sat and talked about what movies they'd like to make if they could. But then it becomes tinged with bitterness, and then the excuses come rolling in ("unfortunately, no one could ever make such a film, due to social conventions and/or the industry at large").
But its just so much worse with gamers. As I've mentioned before, there's this inherent need for anyone who's a fan to be a part of what they enjoy. Many folks who like comic books will try to make their own. And even though its not nearly as nice as what "professionals" produce, its still there, they've made something. Hell, the same goes will movie nuts; they can go out into the woods with a camcorder and some friends and make a movie. It won't be Spielberg or Scorsese, but its something. But gamers don't have that luxury, hence why so many I'm met and spoken with are so bitter in the end. Its why I enjoy going to comic conventions, but I simply cannot look at other people in the eyes at a game store. I simply cannot.
So what does one do when they can't create? They criticize and analyze, of course. And like any book or music or movie review, I take every single game review or deconstruction with a grain of salt, because I have to assume that there's a chance that the author just wants to say "I can do better". And it just seems that with video games, this longing is all the more obvious.
Plus, on a related note is all the hero worship that is involved, which is rather disdainful for rather obvious reasons.
Anyhow, one of the reasons why I myself give Guardian so much shit is that instead of just sitting and wishing, you gotta fucking go out and give it a shot. Once you fail, then you can complain. Otherwise don't, hence my original complaint in the this thread.
Now, if you want to sharpen your teeth as a game writer, then it perhaps understandable to complain about the level of talk around here, since it will either help or drag you down. But in the case of the latter, just find somewhere else to pontificate. Or just do it here, no one minds (well, mostly no one) unless it comes off super obvious what one's intentions are. Either that, or just don't complain that everyone is at your "level" which is what I'm getting. |
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nocturnedelight
Posts: 430
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: |
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jutla, a wrote:
Now, though, some kind of switch has been flipped off in my mind. ... I'll sometimes start writing a post in response to something in the games forum, and then I'll stop halfway, solely out of disinterest and apathy and not wanting to force myself to finish because that would just be going through the motions.
I feel this about most parts of my life, even, when it comes to writing (or maybe just typing, I rarely hand write, and the very few times I've had, it's been a lot...more enjoyable and such).
Even just journaling on my blog for my personal viewing and archiving, I would just stop half way, even in mid sentence. I'd just stop caring.
Or, at least, maybe that's how I just recently felt.
Late last night I got into a discussion/argument whatever about XBox360, PS3, business in general, and such with a friend of mine (who happened to be a business major, I guess). It was the first time in years I actually got deep into discussion, and was actually sharing what I knew and what I thought on a substantial level. It felt...well, first stupid (I hate talking about what needs to be done for 'XBox360' to 'beat' 'PS3', even just slightly touching on it and quickly trying to talk about the bigger picture), but great! (I was talking about in deep business related styles, about branding and consumer appeal, more...plus, just the fact that I was actually saying stuff of worth, even if the topic was ultimately worthless).
I don't personally think video games, or industry or whatever is what makes me dead to talking on a more than superficial way. It's just how I've been feeling about alot of things. And, it seems like other people are going through similar things when you read.
All I'm saying is that I challenge myself in other parts of my life everyday, so when it comes to forum board banter, so I really have no need for such a lofty goal.
I can fully understand what FortNinety is saying (in relation. I mean, I've shared a very very similar feeling and view.) And what comes to mind most specifically was there's a meeting I normally attend in person. I just stopped going for two months because I got so sick of stupid things being said, and, well, me being the only person ever arguing. As I said to my friend, I argue and fight for myself, for others, for principles, and whatever else enough in my regular life with my family, friends, and whatever else, I really didn't need (at the time) more shit.
antitype:
now I don't feel so special. :( |
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antitype
Posts: 1148
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: |
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nocturnedelight wrote:
antitype:
now I don't feel so special. :(
You're still special in my heart, nocturnedelight. |
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jutla, a
Posts: 240
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:55 am Post subject: |
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antitype wrote:
The crush-girl is poisoning your mind, Jutla!
I don't know. I don't think I can pin my apathy down on any one thing but if I could I would probably say it was playing Metal Gear Solid 3 too many times.
Really.
antitype wrote:
Then, four years later, someone shows me Tim's "literature of the moment" article, and it completely eclipses everything I'd recently been trying to do on my own. I decided to view this as a challenge — not something to try to emulate, not even necessarily something to surpass (because how do I compete with some guy living in Japan, working for Sony, being paid to lie and doing it extremely well?), but something to be inspired by in my own way. I started thinking about things like "killing the Buddha," and realizing that maybe I shouldn't even be participating in these forums at all, because just as much as they inspire me, they deflate me.
You know, I almost used to think this way, too. I found insert credit when I was a cocky loathsome fourteen-year-old in early 2003; the first article I read was Tim's "life, non-warp" piece and my initial thoughts were, I will fucking admit right here, something along the lines of "what the hell I've always wanted to write something like this why didn't I what the hell this 'tim rogers' asshole has a lot of nerve being who he is."
The second article I read was Eric-Jon's Metroid Fusion piece and my initial thoughts were "this is so fucking hard to read why the hell did this guy italicize every other word."
I, uh, still...think that about that. But I've repented on "life, non-warp." That's a good piece of writing that I didn't write and never did write and never could write. Tim and Aderack are smart guys who have figured out ways to leverage their smartosity in the field of writing about videogames. At the time, I thought this was a threat. I considered myself a smart guy. I thought, "I have so many insights about videogames. These guys just HAVE NOT SEEN THEM. WHEN THEY DO, THEY WILL JUST BE TOTALLY FLOORED."
I didn't join the forums until a year and a half after I'd discovered the site; I just had not ever been a forum guy. When I did, I was ready to ROCK. I posted all kinds of ridiculous shit that I'm glad is mostly inaccessible now unless you're willing to comb Google's archives. My first week, I remember getting into some kind of fucking dumb argument-over-nothing with Aderack and extralife over (yes) whether or not games should look good. I think about that now and I'm like, what the Jesus? I guess I was trying to talk about a sense of aesthetic wholeness or something, but I lacked the vocabulary, and anyway I was being confrontational, turning a minor point into something to WAGE A WAR over against the ENTRENCHED INSERT CREDIT OLD GUARD who just didn't UNDERSTAND MY GREATNESS.
I think Toups has said that he was the same way when he first joined. I wouldn't really know, because I think I came here a few months after him. But that doesn't matter, the point is, there came a time when I was like, wait, what the fuck, there is no competition. Because these smart guys are successful, why the hell should that deflate or inspire me? They're just doing their thing! That's cool! I'll just do my thing! Our things happen to be similar things, but they don't intersect that well. I can't emulate or become or pattern myself after Tim Rogers. He's not fucking Buddha. He's some dude. Aderack is not The Ivory Tower. He's a guy I shoot the breeze with about Doctor Who and this silly hobby of ours.
So, I don't know. I found it helpful to forget all of that madness about ambition and just...get on the level, you know. Things run their course naturally. You don't set out to be a mover and shaker, especially not here. And, if you're Guardian, you don't write, like, four thousand pages about game design. You just kind of hang out and talk about games if you're so inclined and things build on themselves by...themselves. It's like, you know, the universe twelve billion years ago with matter clumping together spontaneously or some such bullshit.
Otherwise you just come off, uh, weird. I now think you're a fundamentally good and also interesting person, but I thought you were kind of obnoxious the first coupel of weeks that you first started posting here, just because the...way you were thinking about the situation was bleeding into what you were writing and how you were writing it and how frequently you were writing these things and how eager you seemed to be to BREAK THIS INSERT CREDIT THING DOWN WITH ANTITYPICAL AWESOME.
IN CONCLUSION:
we should all forget about intellectualization and anti-intellectualization and chill. Like grills. Tilting at windmills. And paying the bills. Even if it kills. Because that's what fills. Our window sills. |
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Pijaibros
Posts: 968
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:14 am Post subject: |
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FortNinety wrote:
Its just so much worse with gamers. As I've mentioned before, there's this inherent need for anyone who's a fan to be a part of what they enjoy....But gamers don't have that luxury, hence why so many I'm met and spoken with are so bitter in the end. Its why I enjoy going to comic conventions, but I simply cannot look at other people in the eyes at a game store. I simply cannot.
So what does one do when they can't create? They criticize and analyze, of course. And like any book or music or movie review, I take every single game review or deconstruction with a grain of salt, because I have to assume that there's a chance that the author just wants to say "I can do better". And it just seems that with video games, this longing is all the more obvious.
This is true, I often find myself doing it at times. The barrier for entry is unusually high for a game. Especially since most of the time we don't know shit about all the things needed to make a game. Music, graphics, coding, and even getting them all to gel together. With other media it is generally a little easier, heck some options out there even streamline the whole process to do it. Yet not for games, those take more time than the other hobbies as well. I would like to make a queer adventure title on my own, but these things take so much time and energy that I simply do not have it in me by the end of the day. I also can't draw a circle to save my life. I am already in front of a computer doing work (or pretending to) and when I get home I just don't want to do that anymore.
Also for such an expanding career field I wonder why the avenue for entry is absurd? For the other jobs it tends to be easier to get noticed or have sidejobs that will allow you the opprtunity to do your craft. Why does gaming tend to have such high barriers? It seems only two regions in this country even bother to do anything with games. While other forms of media have ample opportunities, at least compared to videogaming.
We should all get our heads out of our asses and take a deep breath. |
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nocturnedelight
Posts: 430
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: |
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jutla, a wrote:
we should all forget about intellectualization and anti-intellectualization and chill. Like grills. Tilting at windmills. And paying the bills. Even if it kills. Because that's what fills. Our window sills.
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GcDiaz
Posts: 1057
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:02 am Post subject: |
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I come here because it is so far the smartest videogame forum on the int0rwebs. Not that I've seen them all, or even a decimal point's pimple of a percentage of them all, but the level of discourse (the good and the bad) is surprisingly high. Frankly, I never imagined that videogames could inspire such intelligent conversation. So whatever, I don't feel the general level of conversation has deteriorated in my time here, and so long as it doesn't, I'll be around.
And yes, I found this place via "Dreaming in an empty room". |
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brainiac
Posts: 941
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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jutla, a wrote:
some kind of fucking dumb argument ... over (yes) whether or not games should look good.
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GcDiaz
Posts: 1057
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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jutla, a wrote:
My first week, I remember getting into some kind of fucking dumb argument-over-nothing with Aderack and extralife over (yes) whether or not games should look good.
At least you didn't compare videogames to illegal drugs. |
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