IC Forum Archive

Mister Toups · Posts: 4943

So I was planning to kick this shit off around january, but then I got a job and started working on the music for dessgeega's game and that sort of threw everything for a loop. Now that the game is out, it seems to have inspired people to start playing with game making utilities. There's already so much talk about design principles and philosophy on these forums, so I think it's time for us to collectively put our tits/balls on the table and start making games.

I wasn't sure how I wanted to organize this thing yet, so I guess this is the IC GAME MAKING CLUB: EPISODE ZERO, wherein we decide on how to organize this thing and all that fun stuff.

At first I wanted to do large collaborative projects using free/cheap middleware like gamemaker or multimedia fusion, or even things like the zelda classic quest editor. However, it seems like several forum members are already working on their own secret projects and whatnot, so it may be better for this to exist as a sort of loose coalition of people interested in making games. Some have suggested creating a new forum for game making. I think this would be rad, but at the same time I'm not sure we've quite reached critical mass for a full forum to really be active enough to make it worthwhile.

So! My point is, I want to make a Silent Hill fan game in the style of NES Zelda. I've had a few other ideas, but watching the movie really made me want to kick this one to the top of the queue. So I guess this thread will be a place for people to talk about what ideas they have for games and if they want to enlist other people to share creative duties or whatnot; it will also serve as a help thread for gamemaker or other utilities. If things start getting like, crazy busy, we can start splitting it into other threads. If things start getting crazier, then I guess that's justification for a new forum?

Anyway, some links to get us started:

Gamer maker -- I fiddled around with this thing last year, and it's capable of doing a lot. The promise on the website (that you'll be able to make games without writing a single line of code) is more or less false: in order to do anything even remotely sophisticated, you must make use of the built in scripting language, gml. It's apparently pretty simple and easy to learn as far as those things go, though. And it's free!

Games made using game maker include seiklus and invader.

Multimedia fusion -- I don't really know much about this program aside from the fact that Eternal Daughter was made using it, and that it's not free. Does anyone have any experience with it?

Zelda classic quest editor (click on "downloads") -- I played around with this a few months ago and it's really easy to get into and start making Zelda quests. It's apparently pretty flexible as far as these things go. The only real problem with it is that it only seems to support midi music, which kind of sucks. I wanted to do some kind of fun IC-collaboration where we broke into groups and each one made a dungeon, and then a separate group did the overworld, but I never got around to learning it well enough to see if that's practical. I may decide to use this for my silent hill project... it would be an interesting experiment if nothing else.

That's all I have. I'm sure there are some other viable options that I've glossed over. If so... post them!

So... discuss!?!

Edit:

Well, it seems we have a forum now! I'm going to sticky this thread and make the top post be a collection of links to resources, tutorials, and the like that might come in handy. So for now post things that you recommend and some information about them, and I'll update this post accordingly!

This includes but is not necessarily limited to:
-game development middleware, as described above
-content creation tools (sprite/tilemakers, music production software, trackers, 3D modeling studios, scripting languages, etc)
-tutorials/how-to guides
-anything else that you can think of that will be helpful for newcomers!

Huzzah!

BEIGE · Posts: 208

I'll join.

I write scripts and music. Orchestral music. I can even get real orchestral people to play it!

So that would be cool if you are not doing the old school thing.

jutla, a · Posts: 240

Don't make games. That's too much work.

ReroRero · Posts: 2148

MegaZeux is dead easy to use and basic as hell but you can get impressive results if you know what you are doing and are creative.

LegatoB · Posts: 1546

Multimedia Fusion is the successor to the lineage of Klik 'n' Play, a pretty rad-for-its-time game maker from the mid 1990s, which is now freeware. It didn't directly support scrolling stages or any shit like that, so you had to be clever and fake it. The Games Factory followed Klik 'n' Play, and added a number of enhancements, including Real Scrolling (tm), but the real scrolling kind of still sucked. Somwhere into this comes Click and Create, a more "professional" tool roughly equivilent to TGF. I'm not sure exactly how MMF differs, but it has some of the exact same problems the programs have had since the Windows 3.1 days: namely, you're still only allowed to use two joystick buttons, and there's a number of quirks of how the engine works which can identify it to a person experienced with such games.

Also, I fully intend to program a constantly-scrolling arcade game this summer. I'm stealing the idea from one professor scissors had in #ic, which we've been fleshing out lately. It's called "Leftrunner." Currently, I'm looking into seeing how a combo of Python and Pygame would work, but reportedly Pygame sucks ass at games with constantly scrolling backgrounds. Heck, maybe I'll just give Gamemaker a shot. We'll see.

Mister Toups · Posts: 4943

BEIGE wrote:

I'll join.

I write scripts and music. Orchestral music. I can even get real orchestral people to play it!

...really?

If like, write out scores and shit, can you uh, get them to play it? and record that shit?

ReroRero · Posts: 2148

LegatoB wrote:

I'm not sure exactly how MMF differs, but it has some of the exact same problems the programs have had since the Windows 3.1 days: namely, you're still only allowed to use two joystick buttons, and there's a number of quirks of how the engine works which can identify it to a person experienced with such games.

There's an extension for MMF which allows a hell of a lot more stuff for joysticks, like support for up to 32 buttons.

BEIGE · Posts: 208

Mister Toups wrote:

BEIGE wrote:

I'll join.

I write scripts and music. Orchestral music. I can even get real orchestral people to play it!

...really?

If like, write out scores and shit, can you uh, get them to play it? and record that shit?

Yes, I can do that shit.

I need to upload some mp3's at some point.

Zmann · Posts: 21

I used Game Maker a couple years ago. And got damn good at it.

I'm not capable of anything artistic or musical, but I can code.

George · Posts: 1656

I'd be most interested in doing a Half-Life 2 mod. I would really need someone to make new skins though, since I have no artistic ability. Any artists here? I have a few ideas to propose, but I could also help you with yours.

TOLLMASTER · Posts: 1977

I'm trying to learn C++. I suck at it and expect to be done by the next century, so if you guys are still around, like if y'all have robot bodies or something, I'll make some games with you.

In the meantime I'd like someone to suggest something simple I can do until then, though. I want something that is relatively freeform, but where I don't have to worry about figuring out joystick support and game engines and all that technical stuff. Anything with a scripting language is probably too complex for me, I'm bad with that sort of thing. Any ideas?

Takashi · Posts: 820

Last year I played with Basic4GL and it's a pretty good kit. Dispite the name, it also features reasonable text and sprite support, so if you coded BASIC before, you'll feel right at home. I'll even throw a hand to help anyone willing to have a go at it.

LegatoB · Posts: 1546

TOLLMASTER wrote:

I'm trying to learn C++. I suck at it and expect to be done by the next century, so if you guys are still around, like if y'all have robot bodies or something, I'll make some games with you.

In the meantime I'd like someone to suggest something simple I can do until then, though. I want something that is relatively freeform, but where I don't have to worry about figuring out joystick support and game engines and all that technical stuff. Anything with a scripting language is probably too complex for me, I'm bad with that sort of thing. Any ideas?

Then you want Multimedia Fusion or one of its older predecessors. Despite my bashing of some elements of them above, they're still damn fun programs, and pretty much anyone can make something rad using them if you're clever. I absolutely fucking loved Klik 'n' Play in 4th/5th grade, and from what I've seen, MMF is probably similarly easy to use and hopefully way more powerful.

Sawtooth · Posts: 2350

Mister Toups wrote:

Zelda classic quest editor (click on "downloads") -- I played around with this a few months ago and it's really easy to get into and start making Zelda quests. It's apparently pretty flexible as far as these things go. The only real problem with it is that it only seems to support midi music, which kind of sucks. I wanted to do some kind of fun IC-collaboration where we broke into groups and each one made a dungeon, and then a separate group did the overworld, but I never got around to learning it well enough to see if that's practical.

I would like to do something like this, except with something that's currently mac-compatible. Like Deadly Rooms of Death.

dhex · Posts: 2963

i'd do some sound design/fx/creepy music etc.

beyond that i can't even think about designing games. it's out of my league.

Mister Toups · Posts: 4943

dhex wrote:

i'd do some sound design/fx/creepy music etc.

beyond that i can't even think about designing games. it's out of my league.

I'll be in touch!

NightsB · Posts: 157

my forte is action/arcadey type music, but i can do most anything through gmidi

chosun · Posts: 288

I mostly work with visual art, usually pixel art. Though ironically I have no experience at all applying it to game sprites or skins. nor animation.

someday I want to learn to code and write music and be just like Studio Pixel! even though I don't have any (original) game ideas in my head at all.

jiji · Posts: 780

If this thing gets moving, a development forum would be a definite possibility.

I can program in C, C++, and usually whatever else. I have two sekrit game projects going at the moment, one a team effort (with BEIGE included) and one an experiment to help me learn things like sprite art and background art. I tend to have lots of ambition for projects and great software design skills, but little creative inspiration on my own. As a result, I like to port things (like robotfindskitten).

I've tried to get into using organya or pxtone to write music, but I sorta have zero creativity in that area, as well. I probably don't have room on my plate to take up more big projects (especially since I have yet another in the concept phase), but I'll be happy to contribute otherwise if I can.

newave · Posts: 616

i can do pixel stuff if need be... v

bort · Posts: 319

As far as engines go, these are some engines that were designed primarily for making JRPG-type stuff but have a much broader range of uses as well:

Sphere - This is a little game-making utility that uses Java Script. I fiddled around with it for a while a long time ago but I am a pretty dumb guy when it comes to this kind of stuff so I am not sure how great it is. I'm not sure if it's still being worked on.

That was the main list of links, but here is a little information page that may be of more use: http://sphere.sourceforge.net/flik/info.html
Ika - Ika's pretty cool. Some guy I know via the internet showed me a video of a Super Metroid-clone he made. He's a genius with programming (although kind of a dick) so I am not sure if any of you guys will be capable of making something like that, but at least the engine has the potential. Uses Python I think.
Fury2 - This is a pretty awesome engine made by a guy I know. Unfortunately, he started working for ArenaNet, and he had to discontinue it since he had to sign a non-compete contract. Coding can be done in VBScript and Java Script. A much better interface than ika or Sphere, from my memory, but there are still some problems with the engine (he showed me some movies and some example games that did some very amazing shit though so I'm sure the bugs aren't completely crippling).

I think he killed the site, but I still have the files for the latest release. Now that I think of it, I should actually ask him to see if I can even use it for anything (I wouldn't want him to get shit from his job or anything).

So you guys can check those out. I can write and do design stuff (read: I can do nothing of real value). I'm writing a script/design document right now for a 2d game of indeterminate genre as of now (was going to be an RPG, but I might just cut all that shit out and make it a straight adventure game with a little bit of combat), so if that ever gets anywhere I'll share it with you guys. Though until then I am pretty much worthless!

Monthenor · Posts: 455

So you're all telling me there are platformer engines I could have just downloaded and starting building a game on top of.

I feel that the Internet of three years ago has failed me.

Anyway, I can do programming in Java, C++, and (in a couple weeks) C#, but I think y'all have that covered.

I'm bummed. Damn. My engine blows.

ReroRero · Posts: 2148

If anyone likes first person-shooters they should give Cube a look. Cube is fucking sweet as is it's sort-of followup Sauerbraten.

professor_scissors · Posts: 1033

I am currently making:

-An action-puzzle game! For a class!
-A Roguelike!
-A harsh, unforgiving platformer!

The first in Pygame, the last two in C++. I also might be helping with Leftrunner.

LegatoB · Posts: 1546

professor_scissors wrote:

I am currently making:

-An action-puzzle game! For a class!
-A Roguelike!
-A harsh, unforgiving platformer!

The first in Pygame, the last two in C++. I also might be helping with Leftrunner.

You're certainly on as a design consultant, at least.

Also, if I could find some damn info on DirectX and C#, I might try that route. C# is the language I've worked in most recently, so it's still fairly fresh. And I kind of like it. It's like Java with less suck.

Toups the Elder · Posts: 508

Also I am working on a C++/Lua based GameMaker-like cross platform game environment. I could accept a few C++/Lua hackers if there is any interest in this.

I am not very experienced with managing programmers and a large project split apart between people, so if anyone has expertise there then PM me also.

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

so i'm down. i guess i've been down since andy told me about this thing what, four months ago? currently working on - well, a bunch of things.

if y'all want to go the route of a large collaborative project anyone can easily get in on, i recommend we do it old-school - zzt.

Sushi D · Posts: 88

i can program a bit. i've been messing around on and off for the past few years with c/c++ and sdl. i havent done anything really productive recently due to time constraints. i could never really get involved with direct x or opengl due to the fact that i still use ancient hardware. i ended up messing with alot of web languages because of it. if you need any graphics or programming, give me a cal . i'll be having a long stretch of free time now that school is almost up.

it would be nice for us to make something interesting. it'll prove wether or not we actually know what were talking about with regards to game design/quality or if were nothing but pretentious shitheads..

ha ha ha.

dark steve · Posts: 3002

Toups the Elder wrote:

Also I am working on a C++/Lua based GameMaker-like cross platform game environment.

Toups Sr., you light up my life.

the drunken samurai · Posts: 4645

dessgeega wrote:

zzt.

eshock · Posts: 132

C/C++/Java/other things programmer here...

Have worked on a couple different projects, most recently in AGS. Have a ton of ideas, and no time, though in 2 weeks I will have infinite time, and am looking for dedicated people to do something cool with.

Mr. Business · Posts: 1530

edit: Things have changed.

I'm a C++ programmer and I can do x86 ASM on Windows. I should be well versed in OpenGL come a couple of months from now.

I can do vector and pixel artwork quite competently, and I will probably be adding 3D modelling to my repertoire extremely soon.

I also made a couple of maps for Zombie City Tactics, including: Chess, Pylon, 2 Bunker, Centrally Nervous, Cloak and Dagger, Drive In, Punctual, Lurker, Sun King, Return to Pylon, Stalkyard, Murky Meanings, Warehousing, and Close Quarters Pylon.

I'm currently a student though, so my time is pretty limited, 'cept during December and Summers.

Talk to me on AIM, or PM me for examples of artwork.

Koji · Posts: 571

Hey guys, what was that graphic application for drawing sprites?

mmd · Posts: 78

You can probably find any game making tool you could possibly want here.

Sawtooth · Posts: 2350

Koji wrote:

Hey guys, what was that graphic application for drawing sprites?

probably graphics gale

Or Pixen, if you're using a mac

Koji · Posts: 571

Graphics Gale, I think that was the one. Thanks!

another god · Posts: 1629

Do I have to register Graphics Gale to let me export Gifs?

Kevin McAllister · Posts: 37

http://processing.org/

Processing is what I'm experimenting with at the moment. Its java derived. The syntax is nearly indentical to Java or C/ For anyone who knows C or Java, its a very convenient way to go from code to graphics with minimum hassle. For anyone who can't program, I think it would be a good language to learn on, since the gap from learning basic programming concepts and skills to actually making things that can move or be interacted with is quite small. Also, the development platform has an option to automatically convert your code into a web page containing your code as a java applet:
www.members.optusnet.com.au/akaash/bounce.html

janus · Posts: 63

I was going to mention ika and sphere, but I see bort already did. Hi bort. Remind me to finish up a Fury2 release sometime so people can use it.

Anyway, another option as far as engines go with a fairly sizable community and decent feature set is Verge3. It's not the coolest thing out there, but it's pretty sturdy, lightweight, and portable (runs on win32, mac os x, and i think linux and psp as well?). It's also open source, which is handy.

Agent Orange · Posts: 194

Kevin McAllister wrote:

http://processing.org/

Processing is what I'm experimenting with at the moment. Its java derived.

It's not only Java derived, it's Java :)
Well, almost.
Take any processing program, wrap a Processing-Applet Class Around it, change all the typecast Operators and you can edit and compile it in Eclipse.

I experimented with ir once, it seems mighty flexible and well suited for hobby-programming.

I'd gladly offer my programming services, but I have too much shit already going on to start yet another side project.

Flackon · Posts: 163

I'm very busy now, but I've started a few game-related projects.

I've started two RPGMaker 2000 games. One was a serious story that decided to cancel (too much work). i've already had a custom Ability Point system with on-screen indicators, the training system for the different characters (everyone would learn their skill differently) and a spiffy credits intro.

The other one is a 1.5 chapter demo technically finished, It only needs a few finishing touches. This one is a comedy, too in-jokey to post it on the net. Also, both are in spanish.

I can code in C, and I'm looking to make the jump to C++, since I'm writing the design document for two games. One will be my dream game, a secret project. The other will be a roguelike applying modern interface sensibilities.

Writing a design doc has taught me how hard it really is to describe in enough detail complex games such as these.

Now, I'm thinking of starting a IF thing. Mainly to mess around and test a few ideas, but if I like it enough, I'll polish and release it on the net.

An I'll definitely give a look to that processing thing

charlie · Posts: 211

So this is the thread where we advertise our selves/projects? Ok, so I've been programming for a while now. I can basically use any language, but I'm most comfortable with C/C++. I can also program in RISC assembler, but that probably won't help anybody unless they were writing a game for the GBA or Dreamcast. I also have some experience with OpenGL.

I also do artwork, like this one, and this one. At the moment those two line arts are the only ones I have scanned.

I'm thinking of starting a project over the summer, a vertical shooter. Like Ikaruga, more "find the best line" type rather than the various maniac bullet-hell shooters. I actually have this goofy idea of basing the game mechanics on mathematical axioms of sorts, and letting the user create chains of inferences.

[EDIT] MIPS -> RISC

Samson · Posts: 5

charlie wrote:

I can also program in MIPS assembler, but that probably won't help anybody unless they were writing a game for the GBA or Dreamcast.

<Joke>It wouldn't help on GBA and Dreamcast either as they use ARM and SH-4 cpus</Joke>
PS1 + 2 are MIPS. But if you already understand the basic concept of assembler, and especially RISC assembler, you shouldn't have a problem picking up for example ARM.
Heh.
But for the really adventurous: Homebrew console development:
http://www.devkitpro.org/
These are the necessary packages to compile stuff for all kinds of consoles: DevkitPPC for GameCube and DevkitARM for GBA/DS/GP32, both contain a cross-compiler for the cpu and some unofficial libraries to get started. The Cave Story map viewer I posted some time ago was done with devkitARM. I can post the source if anyone is interested. (It is not terribly exciting, though).
They recently added a DevkitPSP, which I assume contains a MIPS compiler and some libraries.
I can't find it right now, but there is a kit for the Dreamcast as well.

charlie · Posts: 211

Samson wrote:

charlie wrote:

I can also program in MIPS assembler, but that probably won't help anybody unless they were writing a game for the GBA or Dreamcast.

<Joke>It wouldn't help on GBA and Dreamcast either as they use ARM and SH-4 cpus</Joke>
PS1 + 2 are MIPS. But if you already understand the basic concept of assembler, and especially RISC assembler, you shouldn't have a problem picking up for example ARM.
Heh.
But for the really adventurous: Homebrew console development:
http://www.devkitpro.org/
These are the necessary packages to compile stuff for all kinds of consoles: DevkitPPC for GameCube and DevkitARM for GBA/DS/GP32, both contain a cross-compiler for the cpu and some unofficial libraries to get started. The Cave Story map viewer I posted some time ago was done with devkitARM. I can post the source if anyone is interested. (It is not terribly exciting, though).
They recently added a DevkitPSP, which I assume contains a MIPS compiler and some libraries.
I can't find it right now, but there is a kit for the Dreamcast as well.

Actually, from what I've seen, ARM and SH4 assembly looks close enough to MIPS for me to just 'pick up and go.' But yeah, the correct term I should have said was 'RISC.'

Takashi · Posts: 820

charlie wrote:

Actually, from what I've seen, ARM and SH4 assembly looks close enough to MIPS for me to just 'pick up and go.' But yeah, the correct term I should have said was 'RISC.'

SuperH is easilly the most obnoxious RISC implementation i have ever had the pleasuse to use.

Gorgapor · Posts: 7

I also posted in the "classifieds" thread, but i figure i'll post here too.
I want to get together a small group of people to make some games. 2-4 people. I'd like to start small and make well polished games, instead of starting and never finishing big, ambitious projects (i am plagued with doing that). Anyone who's interested, please PM me on IC or send me a msg on AIM, my name is WizZipBoum.

dmauro · Posts: 933

Interested. Check sig for work samples.

Persona-sama · Posts: 1145

I was linked to some more engines to use:

Torque 2d engine (requires registration):
http://garagegames.com/products/62

Spritecraft 2d engine:
http://spritecraft.teggo.com/

Stratugus, a RTS maker:
http://stratagus.sourceforge.net/

PTK game engine:
http://www.phelios.com/ptk/showcase.html