IC Forum Archive

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

Intentionally Wrong wrote:

Of all Plotkin's games, I think this one probably has the most to say, yet it's simultaneously his hardest. (Well, I say that. You could make a case for A Change In The Weather being harder, and I wouldn't dispute it; I've already admitted I'm not much of an authority where difficulty is concerned.)

a change in the weather, though, is short and meant to be replayed over and over until it's won, sort of like a shooter (adam cadre's varicella is like this, too, only more elaborate). so far, by contrast, is a vast, sprawling work. a game you need at least a week to play to finish it, and which can be made unwinnable instantly.

that's terrible game design, of course. yet so far remains an amazing work. i think it has something to do with the ambition. i think part of it, also, is the cruelty. if the game pandered to and coddled the player it'd be false.

spider and web, of course, is all about the replaying - the game forces you to replay each scene (exept for the last) until you get it right. this is part of the game's story, and it's seemless (which is a pretty amazing accomplishment). i think spider and web is better-designed. but i would consider so far some kind of "grand work."

maybe it's a question of scope?

Rud13 · Posts: 3277

Lament of Innocence is boring.

Project:Snowblind is interesting.

And a lot of early Genesis games just plain suck.

I paid 2 dollars for a game that is by all rights, unplayable.

Intentionally Wrong · Posts: 673

dessgeega wrote:

spider and web, of course, is all about the replaying - the game forces you to replay each scene (exept for the last) until you get it right. this is part of the game's story, and it's seemless (which is a pretty amazing accomplishment). i think spider and web is better-designed. but i would consider so far some kind of "grand work."

maybe it's a question of scope?

Potentially. spider and web strikes me as being more concerned with puzzle- and framing story-mechanics rather than a particular vision. In that sense, I definitely agree that so far's scope is what makes it superior.

I think a part of my preference, at least, stems from spider and web's being clever. It's a very clever game, in addition to having excellent mechanics. The two aspects complement each other well.

So Far, by contrast, isn't really clever at all, and I mean that in a good way. If I had to use a word, I'd probably say it's resonant. Rather than working your way through a situation that has a pat solution, So Far is a kind of metaphor that you have to unfold. Everything has so much meaning to convey, it's never clear what's going to be important, or even necessarily what your objective is. You're just jumping through shadows and performing Significant Works. It's like the means to the ends are the ends themselves.

I guess what I'm saying is that what So Far does is a lot harder for me to understand, and I respect that which I can't understand.

Poppy · Posts: 24

To Intentionally wrong & dessgeega :

I don't know much about modern IF but I remember being really impressed by Shrapnel and Galatea.

Have you got definitive works of IF to recommend? I mean besides So far and Spider & web.

Also, did anybody try Facade here? It's sort of interesting but the interpreter feels very buggy and it takes hours for the characters to answer my lines (when they answer that is).

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

Poppy wrote:

definitive works of IF

well, if you want to start early, there's the colossal cave adventure. infocom did a lot to popularize the form and produced some of its most shining works. my must-plays include a mind forever voyaging, enchanter, and trinity.

you can get nearly every infocom game on one cd if you can find it (they're pretty rare; i have one, though), but they're considered abandonware so tracking them down shouldn't be too difficult.

in regards to "modern" interactive fiction: emily short keeps a list which is pretty thorough. yoon ha lee keeps a list as well.

from her list i'd recommend hunter, in darkness by andrew plotkin, pytho's mask by emily short (and perhaps metamorphoses), and for a change by dan schmidt, which are all pretty solvable and pretty wonderful. michael gentry's anchorhead is a rich lovecraftian horror with a very reasonable difficulty curve. andrew plotkin's the dreamhold is aimed at beginners. adam cadre's photopia made me cry.

adam cadre's 9:05 is very clever and will take you five minutes. sam barlow's aisle is similiarly easy to pick up and put down.

if you feel really, really ambitious, attempt graham nelson's jigsaw. and if you're that ambitious than so far is a good idea too.

frederick pohl's gateway has a very rich sense of world, and uses graphics as well as text. it is a game to curl up with on a rainy day.

charlie · Posts: 211

Just finished up Resident Evil 4. The last boss fight+end sequence was worth the price of admission alone.

Thinking about finishing up Star Ocean 3 next. Or I could clean up my computer, re-install WinXP, then play Half Life 2.

Shapermc · Posts: 2450

I played Pop'n Music 11 all freaking Saturday. It is great. Tank! is one of the TV songs (you know, the Cowboy Bebop theme song). I can almost 100K the hyper version. I must say, with only about 5 or so songs unlocked, this is is the best Pop'n to come out since 8.

I ... also got to the upside down castle in SotN for the first time. I have had the game since late '03 and have known about the upside down castle since about '00 if not a little earlier. I rented and "beat" the game right after it came out and wrote it off as "easy" and "short." I knew about the upside down castle but did not want to cheat to find it, so I could not figure out why in the hell I did not have the Holy Goggles yet. Then I figured it all out after finding the Nightmare (which is one of the best story sequences in a Castlevania game) level... that I had somehow missed in my 2 previous play troughs of the game.

Damn the upside down castle is hard. IGA needs to make the game hard again like this after you start to feel comfortable with the game. I mean, I have died more in the upside down castle than in my two previous plays of SotN, HoD and AoS combined. It is a pretty cool feeling.

special blend · Posts: 154

Just played three hours of Dead or Alive 2: Ultimate so I could unlock some new costumes for DOA3. You don't even get that many.

Sawtooth · Posts: 2350

Intentionally Wrong wrote:

HOLY SHIT DESSGEEGA YOU ARE MY NEW HERO I MEAN SERIOUSLY

I've been trying to promote interactive fiction here for nearly a year--and all the while, someone who already follows Andrew Plotkin is standing right beside me.

I get no respect. I've been following Andrew Plotkin ever since I got System's Twilight in the mail with a Macworld subscription. Actually, there was more stuff with it but ST was all that mattered. First puzzle game of its sort that I ever played.

A Hunter, In Darkness is heartily seconded. The squeeze through the cave sequence is quite amazing.

The rest of Plotkin's games are here. I'd recommend Shade to start out with. It's the first piece of IF I had played after repeatedly failing at Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy so many years ago.

jiji · Posts: 780

Rud13 wrote:

And a lot of early Genesis games just plain suck.

I paid 2 dollars for a game that is by all rights, unplayable.

!

Hahhahahaha, Truxton. That game will eat your soul. Does the Genesis version even have an option for autofire? I can't remember. I wouldn't wish the Genny port of GF2 on anybody.

Also, I noticed your Forgotten Worlds troubles in #ic, but you left before I could respond. Are you using a 6-button controller? It doesn't work with those. If you hold the MODE button on top of the controller while you switch the system on, it should work fine.

You got Galactic Attack! That game is the cheapest best shooter on Saturn, ever. Enjoy!

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

Sawtooth wrote:

've been following Andrew Plotkin ever since I got System's Twilight in the mail with a Macworld subscription.

i am really, really curious about the ending of that game. unfortunately, most of the puzzles are way past my caliber.

how is it, later on? plot-wise and puzzle-wise?

ApM · Posts: 113

I... I like Pick Up The Phone Booth and Die?

I think I've only ever finished two pieces of IF, Shade and Rematch. I don't know what makes me give up on IF without finishing it. I really dug Blue Doors for a while until I got stuck in the convenience store, and none of the built-in hints were able to really help me.

Maybe I just need to let go and start using walkthroughs when I need 'em.

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

ApM wrote:

I... I like Pick Up The Phone Booth and Die?

try aisle.

(there's also a hybrid called "pick up the phone booth and aisle.")

professor_scissors · Posts: 1033

PLANARITY.

Deviously simple, yet addicting game. The idea is that you get something like this:

And drag circles around until you have something like this:

With no lines crossing.

And then repeat, only with more circles. It's fun on the higher levels, and I don't know why. Play it here.

mechanori · Posts: 623

I just finished Final Fantasy 6. I don't know what to think. For most of the game, I was just trudging through. It was like listening to a disc that keeps skipping. The ending sequence made up for it though. The music was good too.

Sawtooth · Posts: 2350

dessgeega wrote:

Sawtooth wrote:

've been following Andrew Plotkin ever since I got System's Twilight in the mail with a Macworld subscription.

i am really, really curious about the ending of that game. unfortunately, most of the puzzles are way past my caliber.

how is it, later on? plot-wise and puzzle-wise?

I wish I knew. I said I played it, I never got too far on it (due to the fact that I received Marathon 2 that same year). I am playing right now, though. I'm unemployed for the next week, so maybe I can attempt to finish it it in the next few days. My old save game is on our old Performa, which is mouse-and-keyboard-less at the moment. I recall getting through the workshop and river areas, though.

A lanky man dashes by you. "Race you to the edge of the desert!" he shouts. "And you'd better be first, if you want to pass!"

Intentionally Wrong · Posts: 673

Sawtooth wrote:

Andrew Plotkin ever since I got System's Twilight in the mail with a Macworld subscription. Actually, there was more stuff with it but ST was all that mattered. First puzzle game of its sort that I ever played.

Dammit, people. This information does me no good if you don't tell me. We need an official poll, or something. ARE YOU NOW, OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN, INTERESTED IN INTERACTIVE FICTION?

I have more to say. I have other responsibilities first.

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

Intentionally Wrong wrote:

We need an official poll, or something. ARE YOU NOW, OR HAVE YOU EVER BEEN, INTERESTED IN INTERACTIVE FICTION?

let's go all the way and make a thread. we certainly have enough to talk about.

it'll be just like the good old days.

Rud13 · Posts: 3277

Aderack go ahead and throw all these posts into their own thread.

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

I'm playing Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. It's really good. Better than I thought it'd be.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Not a mod at the moment.

Renfrew · Posts: 46

Either yesterday or the day before, I almost beat Secret of Monkey Island.
I almost beat it because I went to load it, but I accidentaly saved at the very beginning of the game. I am not happy about this.

Rud13 · Posts: 3277

aderack wrote:

Not a mod at the moment.

That's surprising to me.

I've been playing Lament of Innocence. I'll make a topic about it after I beat it.

chazumaru* · Posts: 480

The european PC demo of Fahrenheit is avaiable here. Isn't the game supposed to be censored in the US version ? Anyway, a few interesting ideas to check out already, although I have little hopes on the final game.

Victor · Posts: 125

Renfrew wrote:

Either yesterday or the day before, I almost beat Secret of Monkey Island.
I almost beat it because I went to load it, but I accidentaly saved at the very beginning of the game. I am not happy about this.

I finished Broken Sword the other day. It crashed more than a couple times durning the play through, placing me in much the same situation. Things like this always happen to me in adventure games.

Rud13 · Posts: 3277

chazumaru* wrote:

The european PC demo of Fahrenheit is avaiable here. Isn't the game supposed to be censored in the US version ? Anyway, a few interesting ideas to check out already, although I have little hopes on the final game.

YAY!

Guardian FINAL · Posts: 1137

Fahrenheit is going to be released as Indigo Prophecy in the U.S. I'm pretty excited. It sounds like everything I had hoped Second Sight would be. It better fucking not be censored.

Karoshi · Posts: 968

What have i been playing since this site's hiatus?

~Killer 7
~Fire Pro Wrestling 2
~Pokemon Emerald
~a bit of Disgaea
~Gradius Galaxies
~Castlevania: Circle of the Moon
~Mr. Driller 2
~that samurai konami game where you hold the sword hilt
~Police 911 2
~Need for Speed Underground (arcade)
~Ghost Hunter or whatever (Sega's gun game)
~Rocket Bowl

I play my Gameboy while i work.

What am I playing now?

~Pokemon Emerald: I'm finally learning about berries and pokeblocks
~Riviera: I've put this one down for a few days. I don't think anything can top finding the girls some mint and disabling golems. You know what i'm talkin' bout. SKeet skeet skeet!
~Battlefield 2: I've played this at a friend's house. I like it. I don't like Halo.
~MC Grooves: When I die, I want The Commodores "Machine Gun" played during my procession.

winkerwanker · Posts: 2414

chazumaru* wrote:

The european PC demo of Fahrenheit is avaiable here. Isn't the game supposed to be censored in the US version ? Anyway, a few interesting ideas to check out already, although I have little hopes on the final game.

Why not? Is it the lack of Bowie?

Roam Unit · Posts: 22

winkerwanker wrote:

chazumaru* wrote:

The european PC demo of Fahrenheit is avaiable here. Isn't the game supposed to be censored in the US version ? Anyway, a few interesting ideas to check out already, although I have little hopes on the final game.

Why not? Is it the lack of Bowie?

I can't claim to answer for chazumaru, but it's probably that, or the giant space ticks shown in the "making of" video that comes with the demo. Or the generally awkward control scheme. It's a nice idea, bringing interaction into what would normally just be boring, unskippable (!) cutscenes, but it feels clunky from the get-go. Example: dragging the corpse. You execute the mouse gesture to start the action, but then the character just stands there until you realize that you're supposed to be tapping left and right. And then there's the issues that start cropping up when you try to actually run...

Still, an entertaining demo. It's the first game in a while that I can think of that implements the "Choose Your Own Adventure" style of branching gameplay in a compelling way.

Dark Age Iron Savior · Posts: 3148

Lately I have PLAYED!

Sengoku Kakumei Gaiden - Cleared the fourth area after fighting it out with a Japanese maiden-turned-spider (amusing, but not nearly as amusing as the one in Shonen Ninja Sasuke), and got a good confirmation I still have quite a bit of game to go. I wish the areas were more evenly divided, though. On the plus side, I got a spell in a fourth category I didn't know existed.....now I can summon a ninja! Woohoo~

Then I stopped for a while to PLAYED!

Mount & Blade - I know I am way behind on this but this game is awesome. It's kind of like what Morrowind should have been like from the start. Too bad it's so hideously unfinished......and the problem is, the shareware kicks me out at level 6, and I want to play more, but I don't want to enough to actually pay for it. I feel like scum. At least I'm not pirating it somehow.....

So now I have been PLAYED!ing

Starscape - A spiritual successor to Inner Space, but unfortunately nowhere near as fun or brilliant. Still, it's a good game. Just wish there was more musical variety.

Totally Forget What The Fuck You Were Going To Do Today - I am the absolute master at this game.

VGM LISTENING TO: The music from Energy Breaker, one of the forgotten gems from Neverland. Wonderful atmospheric and emotional music from Yukio Nakajima (with a few tracks from Shiono and some unknown for good measure). Songs like "The Guiding Fortuneteller", "The Glade", "Reckless Train", "Berserker", both versions of "Thoughts Unarrived", and especially the wonderful "Frozen Tombstone" and "The Prayer Bells Do Not Toll" .....they really make me wish Neverland would get the funding and drive to put together another original game, or even a sequel to CIMA. Shit, let me fantasize the unbelievable - a Lufia game for the PS2/Gamecube/PS3 whatever that has both beautiful graphics and wonderful gameplay, with Shiono and Nakajima sharing the composing duty.

(rambles...)

aderack · Posts: 5018

Reposted from an email to Simoniker:

Hey, you know The Ninja, for Master System? It's actually damned good. I never took the time to pay serious attention to it.

Rieko Kodama did character design for the arcade version, called Ninja Princess. The main character was, of course, female. That got changed for the console version because who wants to play as a girl!

Still good, though.

GrimSweeper · Posts: 530

Ack, Inner Space memories coming back. At one point in my early life I had that game in it's full registered glory. Hellacious fun (although I could not spell it in that present time) getting zapped by viruses, running madly away from pirates, running occasionally away when the police didn't like my banging into them and shearing off my ship's wings whenever I so much as looked at it funny.

But then the game got corrupted at one point, which made it crash/freeze frequently whenever you used the ambulance. And then reformat, changed over to a better computer and the corruption of data on the floppy we had the game on made it so that I could not fly around in my virtual hard-drive anymore. Made me sad, but I think that's when I started playing X-wing so it was forgotten rather quickly.

HOWEVER, Starscape is one of the best of it's kind on the PC that I've found for a relatively recent entry. I've tried Flatspace but it's extremely frustrating up to the point where you die and you cannot help but blame the game for it. Especially so when one of the game options is 'death erases your save'. I want to love it but...I can't. And this coming a semi-hardcore rogue-like player.

Rud13 · Posts: 3277

After finishing Lament of Innocence I've lost all will to actually talk about it.

Now I have a STAR WARS: EPISODE III: THE VIDEO GAME.

Which is..a video game.

Takashi · Posts: 820

Roam Unit wrote:

winkerwanker wrote:

chazumaru* wrote:

The european PC demo of Fahrenheit is avaiable here. Isn't the game supposed to be censored in the US version ? Anyway, a few interesting ideas to check out already, although I have little hopes on the final game.

Why not? Is it the lack of Bowie?

I can't claim to answer for chazumaru, but it's probably that, or the giant space ticks shown in the "making of" video that comes with the demo. Or the generally awkward control scheme. It's a nice idea, bringing interaction into what would normally just be boring, unskippable (!) cutscenes, but it feels clunky from the get-go. Example: dragging the corpse. You execute the mouse gesture to start the action, but then the character just stands there until you realize that you're supposed to be tapping left and right. And then there's the issues that start cropping up when you try to actually run...

Still, an entertaining demo. It's the first game in a while that I can think of that implements the "Choose Your Own Adventure" style of branching gameplay in a compelling way.

I've been playing it a bit. It reminds me a bit of interactive fiction. It also makes alot more sense if played with a controller. However, the camera isn't... immediate. It's like a bad Capcom idea. The bit with the developer doing a Twilight Zone intro in the game engine was pretty cool.

I've also been playing Enthusia. The game starts making sense - it could be a success, let's say, on a GC, or on a PC. Not on a PS2 - it doesn't take himself serious enough.

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

The copy of Super Turrican that I ordered a week ago came in the mail today, so I played that. It's good! Lots of shooting and huge levels, tons of powerups and secrets. Kickin' soundtrack. Kind of makes me think of Darius Twin, in a way. I have no idea why.

aderack · Posts: 5018

The thing I most like about Turrican: it understands that shooting empty space to make things appear is FUCKING COOL. It's what videogames can do.

Rud13 · Posts: 3277

This Blockbuster Game Pass is helpful for getting games out of the way that I wanted to try.

So I tried Star Wars:Episode III. It was a Marketing Scheme.

I think I'm going to try Under the Skin next.

chazumaru* · Posts: 480

winkerwanker wrote:

Why not? Is it the lack of Bowie?

The game has been going through development hell for years - and not Mario 64 hell, Daikatana hell. And David Cage (the guy who welcomes you) changed the concept numerous times and is a bit of a fuck - according to numerous people who fleed from the project.

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

aderack wrote:

The thing I most like about Turrican: it understands that shooting empty space to make things appear is FUCKING COOL.

Too true.

I found a copy of Dragon Warrior III for GameBoy Color today for $11 so I bought it and started a new game. It's not bad, though I wouldn't have minded finding a copy of I+II for GBC for the same price. Still, III's pretty solid and fun. I've played roughly almost an hour now, I've just been wandering and leveling up. When I go back to it later I'll recruit a couple of party members to partake in the questing with me. This will probably be the only game I end up taking with me when I go on vacation next month. I'll be gone for ten days and a nice pocket RPG sounds good for here and there.

Okay, that's a lie. I'll probably take Mario Picross as well.

Takashi · Posts: 820

chazumaru* wrote:

The game has been going through development hell for years - and not Mario 64 hell, Daikatana hell. And David Cage (the guy who welcomes you) changed the concept numerous times and is a bit of a fuck - according to numerous people who fleed from the project.

Curiously, that was the second thought that ocurred me, the size of the high horse a person is on to model himself and appear in his own demo. I didn't knew he was a asswad, but it makes some sense now.

My cousin got Dragon Ball Advance Aventure! It's a good game for kids.

BalbanesBeoulve · Posts: 2126

I pulled an all nighter last night playing Civilization 3.

another god · Posts: 1629

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

aderack wrote:

The thing I most like about Turrican: it understands that shooting empty space to make things appear is FUCKING COOL.

Too true.

I found a copy of Dragon Warrior III for GameBoy Color today for $11 so I bought it and started a new game. It's not bad, though I wouldn't have minded finding a copy of I+II for GBC for the same price. Still, III's pretty solid and fun. I've played roughly almost an hour now, I've just been wandering and leveling up. When I go back to it later I'll recruit a couple of party members to partake in the questing with me. This will probably be the only game I end up taking with me when I go on vacation next month. I'll be gone for ten days and a nice pocket RPG sounds good for here and there.

Okay, that's a lie. I'll probably take Mario Picross as well.

DW3 for the GBC is probably the best pocket RPG this side of Pokemon.

dark steve · Posts: 3002

I played some Guardian Heroes Advance. Sweet fucking CHRIST why has no one told me how astounding this game is? This thing is pure vintage Treasure, and if you've spent some time with the original, the story and characters are wacky as all hell. It's seriously the equivalent of runing through the original as the Golden Warrior in terms of sheer destructive power (in fact I think you are the Golden Warrior.. maybe.. I'm not sure how good the translation is yet). And level two has faux 3D sprite scaling. It's like heaven.

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

another god wrote:

DW3 for the GBC is probably the best pocket RPG this side of Pokemon.

Which works out perfectly because I've never really been too big on Pokemon. Seriously though, this is almost like a full on console RPG squished down into handheld format. I liked the little "cinema" that plays when you start up the game detailing the backstory up the point of the games beginning.

Also I just bought Diablo II at Wal-Mart for teh cheepz and am about to install it. If I like it as much as I think I will then I'll probably be playing it for the rest of the weekend.

Ataru · Posts: 295

dark steve wrote:

I played some Guardian Heroes Advance. Sweet fucking CHRIST why has no one told me how astounding this game is? This thing is pure vintage Treasure, and if you've spent some time with the original, the story and characters are wacky as all hell. It's seriously the equivalent of runing through the original as the Golden Warrior in terms of sheer destructive power (in fact I think you are the Golden Warrior.. maybe.. I'm not sure how good the translation is yet). And level two has faux 3D sprite scaling. It's like heaven.

weird, it got severely trashed in reviews and in word of mouth.

if it's actually good, a lot of people owe me an appology for delaying me from buying it... doh.

Ataru · Posts: 295

also, dragon warrior 3 GBC is fucking incredible. I've put roughly 50 hours into it, maybe more, and am at the final boss... I have to get back to it and finish it off.

Dark Age Iron Savior · Posts: 3148

Ataru wrote:

weird, it got severely trashed in reviews and in word of mouth.

There's a few reasons for that:
*The plot is quite odd, even with knowledge of Guardian Heroes....and either the translation or the original script is completely wonky. You most likely will have to play the game several times to understand it (and not in the Astro Boy "holy shit this is different" way, I mean the "so that's what he was fucking talking about. I think" way).

*The game, like pretty much every Treasure game, can have some serious slowdown issues. They're somewhat more notable in AGH because it lacks the shmup-style bullets (or the large amount of them) of other Treasure games, meaning the "slow motion" segments feel less like moments to try and dodge artfully and more like the GBA is trying to swallow a bone.

*Some of the features are great ideas in theory, but don't come across that well in execution....most notably "Devil Mode" and the system by which you can either spend gems on upgrading your character or unlocking other characters.

*Some of the reviewers are dumbasses.

Other than those, it's pretty much another classic Treasure game.

dark steve · Posts: 3002

That's pretty much it. The story seems bizarre and nonsensical (it's a goddamn brawler! Shut the hell up you motherfuckers!), it chugs when there are six enemies onscreen and the background is doing something particularly interesting, and I'm not seeing all the logic behind this devil thing (I think I'm gonna read the manual). But you know, with the exception of maybe Gunstar, no Treasure game is a perfect experiment. Though I can say this is honestly one of the better ones; it's certainly no more broken than the original (probably a bit less so).

And it's just so GOOD (and like $10 used). I can't stop playing it!

Ataru · Posts: 295

imho, Ikaruga is perfect.

Astro Boy GBA is close to perfect.

I'll pick up AGH soon, thanks for clearing it up for me.