IC Forum Archive

exodus · Posts: 385

what you say?

http://www.insertcredit.com/reviews/cookingmama/

108 · Posts: 2600

i'm getting a poppo over here!!

luvcraft · Posts: 693

exodus wrote:

what you say?

Main screen turn on!

Wilkes · Posts: 1603

how about you all just get off my dick

dark steve · Posts: 3002

ngj at it's finest

not kidding!

Legal Step · Posts: 1030

These sorts of things remind of old post count era ic.

Shapermc · Posts: 2450

You know, I really despise black and white manuals. It pissed me off greatly to pay $60 for Dead Rising and have the damn manual in black and white. There were no savings passed on to me.

The worst part is, most people don't care. It's kind of like inserts in DVD cases. It is becoming more and more rare to find them, even on more expensive DVDs. I mean, is that nickel you bastards are saving really worth it? No. Simple answer.

If this manual got a 6/10 rating from me (even though I have yet to see it) -3 would be from black and white. Pretty soon there will just be a slip of paper that is a flyer for their next game on one side and a “download the manual for this game from our website” (*cough*konami*cough*).

Yes.

exodus · Posts: 385

I sort of agree with cliffyb's statement that manuals are just an excuse for bad game design.

Pijaibros · Posts: 968

Tutorial levels are bad game design

exodus · Posts: 385

tough call, but tutorial levels don't have to be 'HEY PRESS THE BUTTON'. I think the game should teach you how to play in an intuitive way. In Halo 2 you're 'trying out your new suit', so it makes perfect sense, hidden under the guise of calibration.

Mr. Mustache · Posts: 551

It appears we are at an impasse.

Shapermc · Posts: 2450

exodus wrote:

I sort of agree with cliffyb's statement that manuals are just an excuse for bad game design.

Well, true. Manuals need to be more like liner notes on CDs. But that is a whole different can of worms.

klikbeep · Posts: 485

You know the drill -- HQ says we gotta run a maintenance check every million clicks! You want to give those thrusters a try, Blueski? Roll by tapping the stick twice left or right -- but hey, look who I'm talking to! The son of Alpha Squad legend Rance Blueski himself! Heck, you should have MY JOB!!

Now let's test the weapons systems -- I'm releasing a drone now. READY!?

Psiga · Posts: 3990

Sup, Nich.

Pijaibros · Posts: 968

I just wish more tutorial levels were optional. They also seem so patronizing in how it's presented. More games should just let me jump in and do my thing, learn as I go.

If they just simple made it an option whether to participate, I probably wouldn't have as much hatred towards them as I do now. I blame the shift from carts to CDs for that nonsense.

The only one that I was surprised with was Astroboy on GBA. I can skip the tutorial, but if I put up with it and listen to the professor, you recieve a bonus power-up. That was very crafty of them to hide a power-up in the tutorial stage.

Shapermc wrote:

Manuals need to be more like liner notes on CDs.

Total agreement here, throw in some fancy art and I'll be happy. They should also have personal notes from the people involved. That would be keen.

exodus · Posts: 385

I think we're in basic agreement - I was actually thinking tutorials should be the 'learn as you go' thing. There have to be good, intuitive ways to teach people without being completely on rails. Like Indigo Prophecy for instance - not the best game ever, but you sure don't need a manual, and it never says PRESS THE A BUTTON TO TALK.

ReroRero · Posts: 2148

Booklet, not manual.

colour_thief · Posts: 116

Pijaibros wrote:

I just wish more tutorial levels were optional. They also seem so patronizing in how it's presented. More games should just let me jump in and do my thing, learn as I go.

I recently picked up Donkey Kong Jungle Beat and was really impressed with the seamless learning curve. With only the most non-intrusive of guidance you learn an entirely novel control style.

...The opposite end of the spectrum would have to include any recent Zelda game with the sinful unskipable textbox descriptions. How that repeatedly passes play testing I'll never know.

klikbeep · Posts: 485

You'll notice that we've integrated some innovative new surprises into this revision. I know that some of the new cybernetic implements may give you some difficulty at first, but we'll just take this slow and easy -- ok, Tiger?

Press the blue button to activate your comm system. We're using it now, so I guess you've got things pretty well wired in that department! Let's talk weapons: rotate the control stick to activate the Ion Net. Don't do it now! We don't want you messing up HQ again -- the boss would have our asses on a platter!

Take a look at your HUD. You'll see a pulsing green flash -- that's you, honey. Enemies show up as red dots; civilians as blue. Don't get them confused!

Now let's move on to the obstacle course. We've got a few surprises lined up for you!

aderack · Posts: 5018

A game should never have to, even once, give you a text message telling you what to do. What's expected of you should all be implicit in what's laid out before you. That is to say, the game should teach you without you even knowing you're being taught. If the designers can't manage that, they have on some level failed.

Manuals exist for the people who are still too dense to pick up on what the game's doing. They serve an important role, in that respect.

exodus · Posts: 385

level one, probably?

aderack · Posts: 5018

Usually!

Persona-sama · Posts: 1145

Manuals should feature backstories and illustration!

And then they should stop being referred to as "manuals" and instead something pleasing like "bonus artbook!"

exodus · Posts: 385

the word 'manual' is too gender-specific.

how can this go on?

aderack · Posts: 5018

Yes. That's the other thing they're amazing for: providing in-universe peripheral information -- like listing equipment, and spinning stories around it that are irrelevant within the game itself yet which add a neat perspective to the items. Same with common monsters.

That isn't done too much anymore.

Maztorre · Posts: 1175

Metroid Prime provides similar optional jollies in-game, though. But I see your point.

The GTA series manuals are great for this, since they're laid out like tourist brochures for the player. Full of nice little touches, like having authentic ads for the in-game shops.

Mr. Mustache · Posts: 551

The manuals for the Marathon games were quite nice.

Sub · Posts: 696

exodus wrote:

the word 'manual' is too gender-specific.

how can this go on?

mynuyl

Pijaibros · Posts: 968

Super Mario Bros 2 had a spiffy manual. But it's kinda sad that I have to go that far for something memorable.

Without the booklet itself, Birdo wouldn't be the legend it is today!

"he thinks he is a girl and he spits eggs from his mouth."

Just that line sent Birdo from plain ol' mid-boss to legend. Achieveing cult status in some circles.

Though the same thing didn't happen to Mouser, I always liked him. Then again next to Birdo, anything appears plain.