IC Forum Archive

Ashura · Posts: 735

Aderack, you've seen the news about Torchwood, right? Why isn't it being discussed?

Uh, here I mean.

Here's some stuff <s>shamelessly stolen</s> creatively acquired from Outpost Gallifrey's News Page.

EDIT: It should be striked out, dangit!

aMac · Posts: 103

Well, I trust the writers of the new Dr Who to make it decent, but more of Captain Jack? He wasn't exactly my favourite character, but we'll see how this develops anyway.

Roll on, Dr Casanova!

aderack · Posts: 5018

Ashura wrote:

Aderack, you've seen the news about Torchwood, right? Why isn't it being discussed?

I don't discuss things much here!

It's a good patch to all the questions left at the end of this year. Mainly:

1: So, wait. Barrowman's not going to be in the next season? The hell?
2: What, Davies is doing another "Bad Wolf" next year? The hell?
3: Why is the new series so short? It lasts three months then is over for the year.

So, okay. Captain Jack won't be folded back into the series proper until season three. Now, though, we get to follow his side of the story; we just have to wait for the main series to end, first. This will pick up the "Torchwood" hints planeted through the second season and bring them to fruition, providing both closure to season two and a bridge to three, and effectively keeping the series on the air twice as long. Assuming McGann returns to BBC7 in the fall, that means new(ish) Doctor Who will be broadcast year-round.

Might as well, I suppose.

Now. Have you seen the series one box set?

Is that unteneble or what? Anyway, apparently Canada will get the set in February -- which means even if it won't get broadcast in the US anytime soon, we get region 1 DVDs!

Speaking of Jack. Dessgeega, I saw that one post in the earlier Who thread. Did you ever watch The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances? If not, that's almost certainly the highlight of the new series as yet.

Ashura, your Ten[nant] looks like Largo from MegaTokyo...

Ashura · Posts: 735

aderack wrote:

I don't discuss things much here!

Well dang! Where *do* you discuss things much!?

aderack wrote:

2: What, Davies is doing another "Bad Wolf" next year? The hell?

I didn't hear this. What's this about? My guess from what you say later is it has to do with Torchwood, but..

aderack wrote:

3: Why is the new series so short? It lasts three months then is over for the year.

Well, a lot of British shows work like this I think. The Thin Blue Line, Red Dwarf (it gets like 8 episodes during some series.), Casanova (6 episodes, I think- I want to see it for Tennant.) I think 13 episodes is a lot for some shows, especially when they're 45 minutes or so each.

Haze · Posts: 20

Ashura wrote:

aderack wrote:

2: What, Davies is doing another "Bad Wolf" next year? The hell?

I didn't hear this. What's this about? My guess from what you say later is it has to do with Torchwood, but..

Yep. Apparently the next "Bad Wolf" has already started in the first series but no one has picked it up yet. So I'm guessing it'll get a bit clearer in the second season. Darn that Davies!

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

I'm keen on seeing how it turns out. Seemed like Cpt Jack was intended to be spun off from the get-go, though. He seemed like an enjoyably slutty version of Okuna from early NextGen.
Too bad that euroguy and DDR alumn Captain Jack died before some stupid one-shot guest spot could be done.
Should be better than K9 and Company, at least. Or the Eastenders crossover.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Haze wrote:

Yep. Apparently the next "Bad Wolf" has already started in the first series but no one has picked it up yet. So I'm guessing it'll get a bit clearer in the second season. Darn that Davies!

What I meant about this clearing that up is that "Torchwood" was mentioned in the second-to-last episode (I believe as an answer to a question), and there was heavy speculation that it would be the meme for series two. Then this was announced, and it was further announced that Torchwood would be subtly set up throughout series two. So. There we go. Torchwood is the new Bad Wolf -- only with more payoff.

aderack · Posts: 5018

New Cyberman, apparently influenced by Metropolis. Which... makes sense, given "Tomb of the Cybermen".

The other thing those Tennant sketches remind me of, incidentally: a younger Conan O'Brien.

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

aderack wrote:

Speaking of Jack. Dessgeega, I saw that one post in the earlier Who thread. Did you ever watch The Empty Child and The Doctor Dances? If not, that's almost certainly the highlight of the new series as yet.

i...wasn't thrilled enough by the second and third episodes to track down any more (i liked the first a lot, though). i...am interested enough in the dr. who mythos that i did look up plot summaries of the last couple episodes in the season, as well as the empty child. ~~i guess i'll try to track those episodes down!~~

good stuff. there's something about a mob of people in gas masks that...makes me want to play atomic robokid. i like jack. i like christopher eccleston more. he makes a good doctor. or made, as it were.

Ashura · Posts: 735

dessgeega wrote:

i guess i'll try to track those episodes down!

Check your PM, if you're still missing any. ^^

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

so...that dalek episode, huh?

Ashura · Posts: 735

dessgeega wrote:

so...that dalek episode, huh?

Yep, 'dem Daleks. Sexy beasts as they are. A go-kart had an orgy with a salt shaker and a toilet plunger, they did! People thought the baby was handicapped.. but then it started to take over the world!

On the serious end, great episode, on the stand alone end, and on the foreshadowing end. Especially the stairs scene. I'm trying to remember all what we said about it before the board crashed. I know everyone agreed it was great, though.

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

dessgeega wrote:

so...that dalek episode, huh?

Hold up, lemme dig up my "Dalek" rant...

[rant]That was a 30 min script padded to 45 min at the cost of the point.
The story was built around the Dalek's concept of identity. The resolution was when the Dalek realized that he is, like the Doctor, alone in the universe. He then kills himself, after getting in a parting shot at his mortal enemy. In doing so, he demonstrates a capacity for self-determination. THAT's where the Daleks' redemption should have come from - the demonstration of the _capacity_ for self-determination.
That bullshit with Rose ordering him threw out every single bit of chara development they did with the Dalek, reducing them to mere machines who happen to think the sun is keen.
And for another thing. We clearly were not supposed to know that was a Dalek until the lights come on. Like how T2 is built with the idea that you are unaware that Arnie's the good guy.
[/rant]
When something can make me unhappy with mixing Tentacle Monsters and FemDom, it fails forever.

Ashura · Posts: 735

DavidDurica wrote:

THE RANT.

Okay, well he didn't agree. My bad.

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

Ashura wrote:

DavidDurica wrote:

THE RANT.

Okay, well he didn't agree. My bad.

Its not so much I didn't like it, its just that it sould've been a lot better. All in all, I liked the new season, having a middling interest in Doctor Who. I had to watch it as the n00b test bed for the new season for my radio show.
That's why I can't stand Chrono Trigger, because I would've loved it so much more if it hadn't have smacked me in the face that Secret of Mana was an action-rpg, and this was another console RPG, grafted onto Secret of Mana like some Borg upgrade.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Who's Rose Tyler to order around a Dalek? The Dalek already had his mind made up, what he was going to do. He just wanted to prove a point, that as of his last act he was still a Dalek; same way in Jackson's version of Return of the King Theoden makes a big deal about how no one can tell him what to do even though he has every intention of going to Gondor's aid when called upon. A matter of pride, as it were.

Or on another level you could say that he was looking for affirmation. Baby steps and all.

The episode would have worked better if that were the same Dalek that turned up... later; all of this would be explained as the same kind of ruse he put on to get Rose to touch him at the outset.

Ashura · Posts: 735

aderack wrote:

The episode would have worked better if that were the same Dalek that turned up... later; all of this would be explained as the same kind of ruse he put on to get Rose to touch him at the outset.

I sort of wondered, at first, if to the Dalek, the events which happened later in the series happened earlier to him. At the very least, that he was one of the drones from the whole 'later' scenario and due to the events he was shot back to the past. Or that Rose placed him there, or something. I don't think he was the one I think you're talking about, mind. Though, I do agree and wish he was. Then again, in that scenario, doesn't that mean the Daleks are sort of a paradox? But then, that might fit what the Doctor wanted to do with them anyway.

The talk of spoilers for season 2, I was reading over on Outpost Gallifrey, about how people are confused about the alternate universe they may go to.

And that there might be another timelord, you know. And how that can't be, since the Doctor destroyed all the Daleks and Time Lords. I sort of wondered why people were so crazy about it, since they're going to an alternate universe, where events could be different. Hell, the timelord they meet could very well be that universe's last timelord as well. The Doctor himself.

aderack · Posts: 5018

I like the explanation that provides for... that planet, though. Which had always seemed a bit of a stretch. When you start bringing alternate universes in, that actually explains a hell of a lot.

About THAT Dalek:

The way it might have been is that the "suicide" was a ruse, and what Derek really did was teleport somewhere once he had a point of reference or of access, with the hole in the ceiling. Then he spent time lurking on the boundaries of human sight, knowing exactly what people could and could not see (Internet and all), building, planning. He became the new emperor by default, and rebuilt the Dalek race out of humans, out of some irony regarding his own infection from Rose.

This would help to explain why Rose was taken, why she was known to be significant, etc.; why she wasn't simply exterminated: the Emperor would have recognized her and maybe have been planning for just such a scenario.

I find it significant that the first place they go after "Dalek" is Satellite 5, which is being covertly controlled, behind the scenee, by Daleks (though we don't learn this until much later). It's immediate, if subtle, cause and effect. Rose and the Doctor screwed up and let the Dalek escape, and this is what came of it -- much like what happened when the Doctor tried to put things right in that same episode.

It would make so much more sense and be so much more elegant than TWO Daleks surviving the War, one of whom happened to be the most important Dalek of all. And it does seem like generally what they intended; all "Parting" needed was one or two lines to cement the connection. Wouldn't take more than half a minute. Why those lines weren't there, I can't say. Maybe Davies forgot, or took them out. Maybe it's just a coindicence and he didn't realize where it looked like things were leading.

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

maybe it's important that the dalek in DALEK kills itself. i like the episode a lot better that way.

Ashura · Posts: 735

In response about THAT Dalek:

Yeah. The explaination that explains that the Dalek survived the episode "Dalek" and rebuilt the Dalek empire. I like that explaination. My question is, how the series works, what if that Dalek self perpetuates itself and the empire. The Doctor and Rose stumble upon it, Rose gives it life, it pretends to kill itself, escapes, recreates the Dalek empire, becomes the king, The Doctor and Rose figure out they messed up again, destroy the empire. The king is blown back in time, damaged, memories corrupted. The Doctor and Rose stumble upon it, Rose gives it life, it pretends to kill itself... I know there's the discrepency that, you know, it would have became the King Dalek. Huge body and all. I just have to wonder if it could've just abandoned its super body in an attempt to survive and such. Honestly, we won't know if that scenario would work until they reveal their canon for how exactly the Doctor decided to 'get rid of the Daleks forever.' I mean, it would be interesting if he inadvertantly set them in a perpetual loop and just didn't realize it. Maybe that's what happened to the timelords, too.

dessgeega · Posts: 3317

i mean. i just feel something is lost if the dalek fakes its own death to go do something entirely against its motivation in its final scene. yeah, ZOMG SCI FI PLOT TWIST is fun and all, but i think i prefer solid stories to narrative masturbation.

also, i hope we never find out how the time war ended or what caused the doctor's ninth regeneration. mysteries are more exciting than facts.

aderack · Posts: 5018

I don't see how reframing the episode later on as part of a bigger narrative changes the effect of the episode on its own right. That is a common criticism to this idea, though.

Come to think of it, it also seems possible that any such reference was removed from the final episode just to keep the series from being too convoluted and, as you say, continuity-wanky. Davies wants to make sure the show is as accessible to casual viewers as possible, while still doing some more interesting things with the format. So. I can see how this would fall into that category. A bit of a stretch, especially considering the Satellite 5 reference and all of the Bad Wolf stuff. Perhaps it's more numbers than specifics, though.

Ashura · Posts: 735

It might just be that he figured that people would figure out their own explaination of how the Dalek in Dalek led to the Parting of the Ways scenario, and really didn't see that it needed to be explained. That way people can get as wanky or unwanky as they want, and they're neither correct or incorrect. In the end, it just causes talking, and I'm sure that's what Davies wants most of all. People talking the hell about his show. I mean, just look at Bad Wolf and Torchwood now. I think that's what helps make it work. Not only has he built up an intrguing series, but he's built in bits or story to help viral and verbal marketing that most importantly doesn't detract from the series but add to its story.

aderack · Posts: 5018

By the way: you all might want to search some bittorrent sites, now for a teaser and after Friday for something more substantial.

"I'm the Doctor!"
"What's that?"
"WE'RE GONNA CRASH LAND HA HA HA!"

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

alt.binaries.drwho! Usenet is the hardcore thug life gangsta of piracy! He got four bullets in his rec.* hierarchy alone!

aderack · Posts: 5018

Incidentally: title-free prologue now even visible online (in low resolution) here. You can find higher-res versions elsewhere, though the one I've got is only in 3:4 and it of course lacks the bits at the very end.

Seems like Tennant is having a right good time with the role.

There's a complete change in lighting halfway through, at a rough edit. Before that, the lighting matches Parting. I get the feeling the first half was filmed at the same time as that episode, and was chopped out. The rest was added to extend it and make something out of it.

Ashura · Posts: 735

Finally got that link to work... should hopefully have a better version soon. It's got me jazzed, really. I really want to see this. Everything done so far looks really really promising this series.

I was telling my friend, actually, that it's very rare a show can replace the actor of their main character and have people LOOK FORWARD to it.

Getting a better version soon. I'll be glad to check it out at a better resolution.

Oh yeah! While I was in Barnes and Nobels the other day, I noticed that they had 9th Doctor and Rose books out here in the US. I wonder if that means anything? Probably not, but..

Also, this is interesting-

'When the first series was being made, television pirates were desperate to acquire the preview tapes. One of the people in the office had the idea of labeling the tapes with the anagram "Torchwood" rather than "Doctor Who", as a security measure to disguise the tapes when they were delivered from Cardiff to London. Writer Russell T. Davies liked this idea so much that it later inspired him to use it as a title when creating the spin-off series, "Torchwood" (2006).'

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

Ashura wrote:

Oh yeah! While I was in Barnes and Nobels the other day, I noticed that they had 9th Doctor and Rose books out here in the US. I wonder if that means anything? Probably not, but..

Not. Beeb wants a metric ass-load of money, and they want to sell it with the 800 other season of the show. The ones that don't get ratings anywhere in the States.

Ashura · Posts: 735

That's interesting. They still show OG Doctor Who on PBS around here, I wonder what's going on. There's no way they're going to be able to sell it with the old show.

They should honestly get it on Sci Fridays. I'm sad to say it, but it will probably get a good audience if they paired it up with the Stagates.

After them, though, not before. I think the 7PM slot is kind of the death slot.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Yeah, I got the second book; am halfway through. I can say definitively that it is terrible. Don't bother, really.

It reads like a fanfic someone punched out into long form for NaNoWriMo.

Really amazing presentation, though. Great binding, nice paper, etcetera.

About the original series: some stations still have a license to show it. Once those are over, though, they're not getting renewed.

At least the DVDs are coming soon.

I think maybe, maybe, when there are two seasons established and when the BBC dumps the original series caveat, and when people pay attention to the ratings the series has gotten everywhere else in the world, a few stations will pay attention. Maybe about a year from now?

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

Well, it needs to be somebody other than Sci-Fi picking it up. I've talked to some folk from there who've said that the current priority is stuff that they have a stake in, rather than leaseing from other folks (see also: Battlestar and SGA vs Farscape).
Sucks, but its understandable. I'd expect after a few years of not selling it the series would end up on BBCA for a while, or something like that.

aderack · Posts: 5018

http://www.bbc.co.uk/doctorwho/characters/

Hmm. A while ago this page was updated to add Jack to the "TARDIS crew". Now it's... larger.

We know that Mickey will be a companion next series. I guess... Rose's mum will be too? Uh.

And the TARDIS itself counts as a character now, it seems.

Ashura · Posts: 735

Well, I'd say it's just because she's one of the most recurring characters. I doubt they'd add her to the /actual/ Tardis crew. I mean, they didn't even /have/ to add the 9th Doctor as a character, technically, since he's not anymore.

And the 'Tardis as a character' has been a big thing they talk about in behind the scenes stuff if I remember right.

I actually like how they laid it out. The design, then name, blurb, and then quote. They also did a good job of compositing Ten into the Tardis background.

There is something wrong with that picture of Jackie, though.

Also, I find this neat-

The TARDIS - a Time and Relative Dimensions In Space machine. The last one in the universe.

Westacular · Posts: 571

Along similar lines with the underplayed, speculative connection between the dalek of "Dalek" and the Emperor Dalek:

The pointed comments about the 9th Doctor's big nose and big ears -- evoking the Big Bad Wolf of Red Riding Hood. It's there for people to interpret, and the intent is unmistakable, but in the final reveal no reference is made. Watching Parting of the Ways does nothing to remind you of those lines. Was it just a red herring? Is the Doctor meant to be the Bad Wolf and the "message" was Rose's means of calling herself to action? There wasn't much explanation. Which is for the best, I suppose.

As much as I do enjoy seeing everything come together for one big resonating instant, there's a lot to be said for understatement, and letting the viewer create his own explanation. Underwhelming though it might be, the resolution fits the spirit of the (new) series.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Ashura · Posts: 735

That is pretty sweet.

I am so amped for series 2 it's not funny. It's very few shows where they can replace the main character and make you anticipate it more.

Thinking on it now, if Eccelston decided to stay.. would there be as many questions and curiousness? I mean, I'm not so sure you could really top the talk the regeneration caused with another cliffhanger.

Also, I didn't realize earlier, but Torchwood is an anagram for Doctor Who. It was apparently what they decided to label the broadcast tapes to keep people from stealing them before air. And Davies liked it a lot.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Yeah. I think that pretty well illustrates the mindset with which he's approaching this whole business. He's burning with this boundless internal glee. Impish glee.

Regeneration at the end of the first season, in retrospect, is possibly the best thing that could have happened to the series. It basically brings everyone up to speed on the idea almost immediately, and then makes for more enthusiasm and curiosity than ever about the new Doctor -- who will be sticking around for at least a few years, going by his contract!

Combine that with all of the other stuff happening, and the random last-minute announcements like the CIN special and that "red button" episode to follow The Christmas Invasion, and -- well, just yikes. The waters have been tested. We've been warmed up. And now it's all happening.

And it includes... sword fighting in pajamas.

Westacular · Posts: 571

For Canadians, and any Americans who are fortunate enough to live near our border, I'm happy to report that the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation -- who aired Season 1 last spring with only a couple-week lag on BBC's broadcasts -- will be airing the Christmas Special on Boxing Day.

It's still the pyjama-rama "The Christmas Invasion", though, and not some other "The Boxing Day Invasion" as a Boxing Day special -- which, one must admit, would be an excellent opportunity to do a good Autons/Nestene Consciousness story. (They'd be the good guys.)

aderack · Posts: 5018

Eating up all the returned knicknacks?

Westacular · Posts: 571

While valiantly defending storefronts from an onslaught of greedy, irate humans!

It would probably be too violent for Doctor Who -- really, from what I've read I think it would a better fit with Torchwood. Then you could have a Doctor Who Christmas Special, followed a day later by the Torchwood Boxing Day Special.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Ha! They can Torch the Wood of the Christmas trees! Because... they're made of wood!

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

Sorry, y'all. My co-host didn't tell me he was interviewing Sherman up at Chicago Tardis. But we ran the interview on my show (http://www.interstellartransmissions.com/) this past week.

aderack · Posts: 5018

It's Sad Tony!

DavidDurica · Posts: 367

I still think Bea Arthur would make for a good doctor.
I'm dead serious. She's very good at doing, "I'm infinitely smarter than you, but being nice, yet condescending and bitchy". I haven't seen her do Great Heroics, but still...
Admittedly, this started as a joke about Pertwee's hair. My co-host's Dr Who calender had this one pic of Pertwee that look far more like Bea Arthur than usual. But then we got to thinking that she'd probably be able to play The Doctor pretty well.
And I stand by that idea.

Westacular · Posts: 571

But Bea Arthur is too serious. I mean, she can do funny oddball stuff -- she just still seems dead serious doing it.

For instance, I honestly can't think of Bea Arthur without hearing:

"Why? Why? I came here from a faraway planet - a planet ruled by a chauvinistic manputer that was really a manbot. Have you any idea how it feels to be a fembot living in a manbot's manputer's world?"

aderack · Posts: 5018

Shada. Works better as a radio show than an animated webcast.

"Chimes of Midnight" starts next Saturday -- the first actually-good Eighth Doctor audio play. Things mostly only get better from here, with some exceptions.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Whee!

See that black guy talking with (Prime Minister) Harriet Jones. See his badge? You know what badge that is?

This appears to be a much bigger-scale story than I expected -- the kind of thing I instead expected Aliens of London to be.

aderack · Posts: 5018

A couple of new games here.

Ashura · Posts: 735

>> See that black guy talking with (Prime Minister) Harriet Jones. See his badge? You know what badge that is? <<

I wish it wasn't the size of a postage stamp and I was able to see it.

Can you explain for those of us who are blind and not friends of bad internet video formats?

aderack · Posts: 5018

!

...

So!