IC Forum Archive

aderack · Posts: 5018

So. What's good? Which ones, in particular, support ogg vorbis? I know some do; I just don't know which ones, and if any of those also happen to be otherwise competently made!

Jeff Garneau · Posts: 1622

nintendo ds + pirate hardware = mp3, ogg, and nsf player.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

I owned a Sony NW-E507 mp3 player. it was very beautiful looking and had a built in FM tuner but I ended up getting mac and the shitty 'Sony Connect' software on it didn't work on macs so i sold it to a canuck on ebay.

EU03 · Posts: 164

http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/
I've heard good things about JetAudio, and they look pretty sexy.

Mister Toups · Posts: 4943

I hear irivers are nice?

Waffen · Posts: 1638

Mister Toups wrote:

I hear irivers are nice?

yeah they don't have any proprietary software I guess. you just drag and drop mp3 files into them and it plays them. like an mp3 flash drive or something. i mean, they're all like flash drives but the irivers are better for this.

dongle · Posts: 236

HOLD IT!

There is nothing wrong with the ipod.

Check out Rockbox. It's an open source firmware that has all the features that made the karma such a legendary player (which was my previous pdap for years before it recently died). Gapless, tons of file formats, shove stuff on there like it's a mass storage device and you can browse by file tree or file tags, great playlisting, replaygain support, etc etc. FWIW it runs on Archos, Iriver, and some Cowon products as well. Plus it's skinnable.

thatbox · Posts: 816

I have a 20GB Rio Karma that I absolutely adore. The only disappointing thing about it is you can't use it as a USB mass storage device! Does Ogg and FLAC and it's got a happy face that comes on the display when certain things happen, such as transferring songs to it. Plus they're pretty cheap these days! I got mine used from Amazon for a very reasonable price!

Isn't Rockbox's interface, like, awful? Last time I looked at it it was!

I wish Steve Jobs had an address I could write to from which he'd actually read the mail. I'd just ask him to please support Ogg Vorbis next time, and suggest that it likely would not take one of his coders any more than five hours to add it in. He'd probably even do it for free!

dongle · Posts: 236

I loved my karma but I wanted a flash player and I didn't want to have to deal with their media management software. Plus the battery life was a fraction of its once glorious 20 hours and some lines on the screen are dead. The empeg team has designed a new chip set and has modernized the OS somewhat, but so far the manufacturers that have picked up the part are using shitty designs, small hard drives, and take out important features like flac/ogg support and gapless playback for some unknown reason.

The rockbox interface isn't terrible anymore, and there has been significant planning about how to revise it for the 2.0 release. I just started using it a couple weeks ago. I still prefer the Karma interface by a small amount, but not as much as I appreciate a smaller, unshockable player.

FWIW the current rockbox browsing/queueing interface works more or less the same as the karma one*, the difference is that the karma's main 'playing' screen is your playlist whereas it's a bit less accessible in rockbox.

So, yeah, ideally I want a flash Karma, and I was waiting, but when the karma kicked the bucket I wanted a replacement that had a production future.

EDIT: another consideration is that rockbox is open source, and it is very easy to create patches to reorganize menus. i usually append stuff, and my only complaint about the karma navigation was that it took a spin of the wheel to get down to append.

gktime · Posts: 116

If you need ogg, just firmware hack an iPod. I have a friend using the rockbox stuff with no issue.

thatbox · Posts: 816

Thing about the iPod is, if I want an iPod I want the interface. It's slick ;_;

I just really cannot grasp the reason for its lack of Vorbis!

aderack · Posts: 5018

Wow, I really, really like the look of this thing.

I mean. It's attractive. I like the layout of its controls. I like the features. It doesn't do anything weird and frilly that I don't care about. It seems very down-to-Earth yet stylish about what it does do.

EDIT: Lack of flash drive business is annoying, though. Hmm...

thatbox · Posts: 816

aderack wrote:

Wow, I really, really like the look of this thing.

I mean. It's attractive. I like the layout of its controls. I like the features. It doesn't do anything weird and frilly that I don't care about. It seems very down-to-Earth yet stylish about what it does do.

Yeah, and, again, you can find them for pretty cheap. It's a well-respected player! I should have shown mine to you at E3 - it's got some heft to it. It's no svelte iPod Nano. But it's got 20GB and it does what you need it to do, unless you need it to be something that isn't an mp3 player and is a USB mass storage device instead. viki in #insertcredit likes hers very much, as well.

You can even connect to it via ethernet and add songs via a web interface, which is a feature I haven't needed yet, but it's neat to have.

winkerwanker · Posts: 2414

Aderack listens to Public Enemy?

thatbox · Posts: 816

aderack wrote:

EDIT: Lack of flash drive business is annoying, though. Hmm...

You can still put things on and take things off of it using Rio Taxi; it's just not accessible through My Computer and it's unlikely that wherever you're taxiing things to will actually have Rio Taxi installed.

dhex · Posts: 2963

what's the battery life like?

my 1st gen mini is dying and i'm kinda in the mood to tell apple to fuck off forever, metaphorically.

thatbox · Posts: 816

Not nearly as nice as Shaper's iPod, but I got mine used so I didn't expect much. I had to charge it at the end of a nine-hour car trip, but I haven't measured it or anything and it hasn't died on me unexpectedly yet.

dongle · Posts: 236

thatbox wrote:

Thing about the iPod is, if I want an iPod I want the interface. It's slick ;_;

If you can give up the sliding animations, there are identical rockbox skins.

The Karma gets about 20 hrs on mp3s, 13ish on oggs (depending on quality) and 8 on flac when new. It's great and I'd highly recommend it. The harddrive and battery are replaceable with generic parts, but unfortunately the batteries available are about half capacity :/

Kappuru · Posts: 492

all i can say is that ipods, hands down, have the best interface for managing 1000+ songs.

that said, I want a small flash player to go skateboarding and biking with, but I kind of want a screen. Anyone know any sub $150 1gb GOOD flash players?

Takashi · Posts: 820

Sansa has a pretty neat player just out, if you like bubblegum stick players. If you want a proper screen, I suppose a Nano would be the best choice? The one gig version goes for something like 120$.

Mr. Apol · Posts: 279

kap was a sk8r boi

absolutego · Posts: 16

i love my karma as well. but it's my third, and if both rio and the company i purchased it from (and its glorious european three-year warranty no questions asked) hadn't kicked the bucket i'd exchange this one too. the first had a faulty stick, the second's hard drive died about a year and a half in, and this one has a weird buzz-like noise that kicks in under the most unreasonable circumstances. it's a lottery, it seems, and i'm not sure it's worth the risk given the odds and the fact rio's long dead.

dongle · Posts: 236

Kappuru wrote:

that said, I want a small flash player to go skateboarding and biking with, but I kind of want a screen. Anyone know any sub $150 1gb GOOD flash players?

refurbed or used nano. got a 4gb 1gen nano for $100 in near-mint condition. they pop up on fs/ft sections in audio related forums pretty frequently now that 2gen nanos are out.

absolutego · Posts: 16

the smaller (aaa or internal battery) muvos are pretty good too.

Takashi · Posts: 820

I think my cousin is on her second Muvo. The batery case snapped a couple of months in, and then the player died in little under a year. Not the player I'd recomend. Also, for the price they have ridiculous screens.

Nana Komatsu · Posts: 697

dongle wrote:

Kappuru wrote:

that said, I want a small flash player to go skateboarding and biking with, but I kind of want a screen. Anyone know any sub $150 1gb GOOD flash players?

refurbed or used nano. got a 4gb 1gen nano for $100 in near-mint condition. they pop up on fs/ft sections in audio related forums pretty frequently now that 2gen nanos are out.

Apple has a refurbished 2 gig Nano for $100 at the online store. I bought a refurbished 15 gig ipod from them a year ago and it was like brand new.

Kazu · Posts: 894

Currently using the Samsung YP-Z5 (2 gig, silver).

Supports mp3, ogg vorbis ... as Samsungs mp3-players usually do.

Comes with 1,2 and 4 gig, can be used as a USB-device, but there's more to that point - if the firmware is patched, you can choose an option in the settings-menu that the Z5 will be identified as an USB-device by default, if you use an stock Z5, the option is missing on older models but can be enforced by pressing a button for some seconds. It's a bit annoying but normally you want to update the firmware and then the problem is gone.

The Z5F-Model has added radio-support, can record messages and has official ogg-vorbis support. For whatever reason, the older Z5-model didn't have "official" ogg-support but plays the files nevertheless, as my Z5 does.
The newest firmware supports gap-less playback (Pink Floyd, anyone?), but currently not for OGG vorbis, as some people report, didn't have the time (and tracks) to confirm that. Some people love gap-less playback and are pretty upset about that ...
Also, the Z5 has some problems with playing OGG-files if you have chosen one of the equalizer settings, there seems to be a "crackling noise" you'll notice. Can't confirm/deny that, as well.

Battery life .... it's said to be able to play music up to 35 hours, the newest firmware promises up to 44 hours.
Depends on the bit-rate etc., some say that 25 to 30 hours is more likely ...
But there's a thing about the battery-life that has to be said as well.
You actually can't turn the Z5 off completely, there's just a "stand-by"-mode and, if you didn't use it for 24h, it switches into an "extended stand-by"-mode. Therefore, you can use your Z5 for, say, five or up to seven days and then you'll have to find a power-source to refill the battery again.
To make things worse, you need a computer/mac or you decide to buy an USB-loading-device to be independent from your PC.

Also, comes with a proprietary cable, so you better take that with you if you decide to take the Z5 to your friends.

Now, why should you even think about buying one?

The Z5 is often praised for it's excellent sound, however, I can't tell how good it fares against other players like the iPods or other players.
I have borrowed some players in the past for a week or so, but they were .... uh, cheap ones, so of course the Z5 should have better sound. Has a nice screen, supports "wallpapers", can view images - it's basically a iPod Nano-contender, but just a tad better, as nearly all review-sites state. But then, review-sites, internet ...

Conclusion:
If you plan to use the mp3-player for commuting every day, it might be a good choice. If you want good sound, might be even better.
If you plan to use it for your camping holiday without electricity for some weeks, bad choice. If you want it for the "bling bling", even worse. OGG-support might be a hassle

Available in white and silver as well.

There are several places around the 'net where you can find more information on how the Z5 does/compares to other players, if you plan to buy one, take a look around and see what everyday people say about the Z5.

now, Samsung also offers other players that fare quite well, the YP-U1 or YP-U2 ones are more like usb-sticks and mp3-players in one, provide about 10-13 hours battery-life, have OGG-support and not the battery-"problems" the Z5 has.
Google Samsung Yp- and take a look at what people says.
Was a bit surprised that noone mentioned Samsung-players ...

[edit]
amazon lists them from 198 bucks to 140.

Isfet · Posts: 510

Jeff Garneau wrote:

nintendo ds + pirate hardware = mp3, ogg, and nsf player.

Mr. Garneau: tell me more?

i'm heavily considering getting my girlfriend a DS for xmas and while she seems to enjoys the idea, she said "it's too bad the DS doesn't play music." i said that there probably is a way to do that. so, what would that entail?

dongle · Posts: 236

flashcart + other programs. there are options. mooonshell and dsorganize come to mind. a lot of flashcarts have players built in (m3, g6, ds-x, supercard?, more?).

Jeff Garneau · Posts: 1622

it's not natively on supercard though it is on a lot of other formats. ezf? anyways, setting up moonshell is a bit intimidating but totally simple once you start clicking buttons. also it lets you view pictures and text files.

also the same guy who wrote moonshell has some kind of wifi voicechat thing on his site though i imagine it is leagues harder to set up.

problems: not a lot of space on flash cards. supposedly you can get a 4gb SD card from sandisk though the ones on ebay are mostly fakes. 2gb is widely available and costs like $50. the card itself will probably come to at least $50 with shipping. then you need a linker that'll write to the SD card, but those are fairly cheap.

then you need to either get your firmware flashed by someone else with a Passme or to buy a passme yourself (or wifime? i don't really know how that works).

samor · Posts: 10

I wasn't too thrilled by the mp3 sound quality in Moonshell on DS last time I tried it... admittedly, that's been quite a few versions ago... it sounded much like a DS game's music, which is ok, but it's not CD quality.

...it's a good MOD player, though.

duckzero · Posts: 244

Well, I have a Sony NW-HD5, which if not for sonicstage (or any of the sony programs), I would be in heaven. It sounds great, has about 40 hours of battery life, supports all of the sony remotes and just has a plethora of audio options. I got mine off of ebay for 30 dollars, which for a 20 gig mp3 player, that's a good deal. Most of the time they will go for 250 new, or about 150 on ebay.

http://www.engadget.com/2005/04/05/sony-nw-hd5-20gb-network-walkman/