IC Forum Archive

internisus · Posts: 961

And he's not even a gamer!

FortNinety · Posts: 4591

Oh, and here's a pic I took at the Sony Store last night for their midnight sales even in the city, arond 1 in the morning. Its from the outside of all the people who didn't manage to get in, watching the "lucky ones" buying the first round of systems. It was like seeing a bunch of homeless folks salivating over rich folks eating fillet mignonin some five star resturant.

dhex · Posts: 2963

internisus · Posts: 961

I wasn't comparing it to child labor, I was preempting inevitable pooh-poohing to the effect of "child labor is way more exploitative, grow up". My point is that, on principle, this practice hurts gamers. It violates the kantian golden rule. It's a rotten thing to do, even if it's really not a big deal. It's also not a big deal to throw a cheeseburger wrapper out your car window on the highway, but if everybody does it -- and why wouldn't they? -- it turns into something that really sucks. And when something like 80% of the people who manage to get their hands on these systems at launch, beating out the other folks who have stood around in the cold for 15 hours, when these people go home and up the unopened systems up on eBay for $200 more, it's a messed up thing. If these people are actually gamers themselves, that's even more messed up. That's all I'm saying. I don't really see how anyone can argue against that. "Teaching" me "lessons" in "economics" isn't working, at least.

The thing that you have to understand about me is that I often engage in debates regarding what I see as matters of principle. Many times this takes me to the point of playing devil's advocate or getting more abstract or theoretical than other parties are willing to follow. It's my way of testing what seems right and wrong or true and false, or just whatever. I don't really see many other important uses for conversation, anyway. You know, in the scheme of life and shit. I guess I don't come off as a fun person, but I don't talk the way I write. Mostly. It just really bothers me that I can sit here and say this thing is obviously wrong, and everyone else can respond with either "no it's not" or "it is but christ dude it doesn't matter that much" and have that be that. That bothers me.

GcDiaz · Posts: 1057

internisus wrote:

The thing that you have to understand about me is that I often engage in debates regarding what I see as matters of principle. Many times this takes me to the point of playing devil's advocate or getting more abstract or theoretical than other parties are willing to follow. It's my way of testing what seems right and wrong or true and false, or just whatever. I don't really see many other important uses for conversation, anyway. You know, in the scheme of life and shit. I guess I don't come off as a fun person, but I don't talk the way I write. Mostly. It just really bothers me that I can sit here and say this thing is obviously wrong, and everyone else can respond with either "no it's not" or "it is but christ dude it doesn't matter that much" and have that be that. That bothers me.

Everybody wants to be a hero. To "stand for something". You actually mention the scheme of life, when in the real scheme of life no one gives a shit.

Adilegian · Posts: 124

HOLY GOD.

Screen cap taken from one of the college's computers.

GcDiaz · Posts: 1057

I hope so, default XP themes are so n00b. That has to be a typo, or joke bid.

duckzero · Posts: 244

Are theee bids all 1 day auctions? they seem to be going fast.

FortNinety · Posts: 4591

One key to effective arguing Guardian is to use analogies or examples that don't make people roll their eyes and therefore shut themselves off from whatever else you have to say, no matter how sound your core belief might be.

SuperWes · Posts: 681

Hey guys, I need some good images of Launch lines. Send them to super wes at gmail . com if anyone's got them. Thanks!

-Wes

Axelay · Posts: 195

I already posted it in news, but in case anyone's interested: PS3 Pre-launch Mayhem

Not to be confused with the inevitable launch day mayhem.

hyouko · Posts: 55

Looks like it'll take a while to smoke out all of the PS3 scammers on eBay. Last year, most of the 360 scams were seller-oriented (i.e. the sellers sold pictures of the console, empty boxes, accessories, etc.) - this year, it's looking like most everything is on the buyer end.

For someone who's more familiar with eBay than I am - is there a way to cap it so that only buyers with a certain level/amount of positive feedback can bid?

SJ · Posts: 414

internisus wrote:

"Teaching" me "lessons" in "economics" isn't working, at least.

So, if someone works during most of their time and thereby contributes to society and earns money, is that person less worthy of a PS3 than the camped-out 20-something wearing a TMNT hoodie with Wendy's stuffed in his pockets?

Are free time and willingness to wait the dominant factors in who should receive a PS3? Is time spent earning money not as worthy a deciding factor?

Also, I don't think the selling of PS3s on eBay is worthy of dragging out Kant's categorical imperative.

EDIT: TOP PROUST IN THE NAME OF CAPITALISM.

James · Posts: 1735

dhex wrote:

Whether one is talking about children in sweat shops or fools trying to buy a PS3, exploitative means exploitative.

sorry i'm late to this party.

jesus christ, man. you need to do something with your life before you become a leading character in an independent film about a dude who works in a store and has a girlfriend kinda and they drive around a lot because life is full of hard choices and nothing can ever be like it was and stuff and then the theme song plays over the ending credits and we all take a moment to think about what it must be like to be that guy. and stuff.

if someone is willing to pay 1000 bucks for a game system, and they're doing so by CHOICE and not by FORCE or COERCION then - and this is key, so hang on here - the exploitation seems to exist in your head because you wouldn't pay that much for that game system. neither would i, that's nuts and i already have a pc thanks.

now, i think $250 bucks for a wii is crazy, especially because it's gimmicky and kind of ddr-ish and a little bit sad for grownups to be playing with and nintendo has managed to pull an apple and are supplied with all sorts of remarkably lovemark-ish attachments by their customers. (same goes for all those reiterations of the gba/ds) by your standard, they're being exploited. because they're buying something of their own free will.

if you're going to conflate "badly wanting something" with "hobson's choice" then you should probably rent "sophie's choice" and get back to us.

you don't actually like games, do you

showka · Posts: 994

GcDiaz wrote:

Hey guys.

On this forum.

This one right here.

Which I consider one of the smartest around for our particular topic.

How many PS3 threads do we have, compared to Wii or 360 or current-gen threads?

Some might say, Mission Accomplished. Sure sucked the wind right out from Nintendo's sails, at least among the lesser informed.

FUCK. You and your damn logic, GcDiaz!

If Nintendo had launched the Wii shorlty before the PS3 launch, these news stories would keep pausing to mention how the new Nintendo Wii had just been launched as was available. I'm not sure if that would've been better or worse, though I lean towards better.

I stopped by Best Buy and Target after work last night just to take a gander at the lines. Pretty stupid.

The store had a PS3 kiosk set up. I have to say its easily the ugliest mainstream game console ever created. It looks like it was designed by a pimp - we have a chrome black console with that even worse than in pictures Spider-Man font in bright silver letters.

I was actually impressed by the graphics, but it was the same kind of impressed you get by watching a game run in higher resolution on a nice monitor. I think the PS3 had a better demo TV set up to run it than the neighboring 360. The game - NBA something or other - had models that looked like a PS2 game only there were more of them on screen and the frame rate was crisp. Still not worth $600.

dhex · Posts: 2963

FortNinety · Posts: 4591

Again, I'm just glad I'm not a parent this time of year.

108 · Posts: 2600

dmauro wrote:

108 wrote:

. . . wish i had a decent game to play on the fuckin thing

Weren't you going on about how good Resistence was gonna be?

well, yeah

then i beat it, and, well -- then i got a ps3, and now here i am, using it to post on the IC forums while enjoying its wonderful music player

man, HDMI cables are kind of incredibleish

ModNarco · Posts: 274

108 wrote:

man, HDMI cables are kind of incredibleish

One plug instead of five? Woo.

Personally, I'd say styrofoam has offered more to civilization than HDMI.

skelethulu · Posts: 129

ModNarco wrote:

108 wrote:

man, HDMI cables are kind of incredibleish

One plug instead of five? Woo.

Personally, I'd say styrofoam has offered more to civilization than HDMI.

SO FAR.

firenze · Posts: 654

108 wrote:

. . . wish i had a decent game to play on the fuckin thing

But... but... Ridge Racer?

I was kinda thinking RR7, Genji, and Untold Legends would hold me until the good releases start coming in Feb/Mar. RR7 because it's fucking Ridge Racer (um, so what if it's similar to RR6 - I love RR6). Genji because I really liked the first one and an unambitious clone with prettier graphics isn't at all offensive to me. Untold Legends for 4 player hack and slash online co-op.

But yeah, getting a system and all that. One day I'll do that.

dhex · Posts: 2963

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

dhex wrote:

you don't actually like games, do you

not console games, at least not like that. too much japan, not enough fps action.

Black, dhex. Black. It's probably cheap as hell by now too.

internisus · Posts: 961

Black is pretty hot. Simple, but hot.

dhex · Posts: 2963

i went looking for black the other day in a gamestop, thinking it would be five bucks or so, but no dice. they've all been unloading shit in preparation for the new console season.

but i was thinking more in terms of the wii. it's a great idea in theory for an fps style game, but what i've seen of the execution doesn't really dub my trousers.

Axelay · Posts: 195

Check it out! Dead Rising for real!

Links to more PS3 fun

Maztorre · Posts: 1175

More like dead inside.

dmauro · Posts: 933

Black sucks. I stole it for free and it wasn't worth the time spent fetching it. Couldn't even make it through the second level. Yuck. Get a 360 and play Gears of War with us instead.

dhex · Posts: 2963

gears of war is 3rd person. no dice.

DaleNixon · Posts: 766

dmauro wrote:

Black sucks.

Blasphemy!

Jeff Garneau · Posts: 1622

point the second: people reselling PS3s is actually the best thing that could happen for society.

when you buy something, you value it equally or greater than the price you pay for it. for example, you wouldn't buy something that is worth $50 to you for $70, but you would the other way around. whenever a sale occurs, society is enriched by

a: the difference between what the seller valued the item at and its sale price
and
b: the difference between what the buyer valued the item at and its sale price

for example, say a PS3 is worth $650 to you. for the purposes of this argument, we'll say it's worth about $600 to sony*, as they are going as low as they can with the price. when you buy it, $600 moves from you to sony, which has a net zero effect to society (you lose $600, sony gains $600). however, society gains $50 because an item sony valued at $600 is now in your hands, which value it at $650.

therefore, society gains the most when people who value an item the most purchase them. when someone pays $3000 for a ps3, that means it is worth at least $3000 to them. this means that the sale increased society's wealth by at least $2400 rather than $50. it had to go through a reseller, but the net result is the same.

i mean, you could say that these guys are just rich bastards who don't want the console as much as THE REAL GAMERS, but i would say that they probably want it really badly. alternately, you could argue that just because people have money doesn't mean they should have things, in which case you might want to learn something about communism aside from "WELL IT JUST HASN'T BEEN TRIED YET IN URBANIZED NATIONS LIKE MARX ENVISIONED IT"

also i recommend movies in which the main character has a boring, traditional life then dies and god gives him a second chance and he decides to LIVE LIFE MOMENT-TO-MOMENT

*yeah, it complicates things that it costs more for sony to produce these, but it's surprisingly irrelevant here.

Waffen · Posts: 1638

dhex wrote:

gears of war is 3rd person. no dice.

you played it yet?

give it shot and come back and tell us what you think.
you might be surprised.

and this: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1560635,00.html

LOL

GcDiaz · Posts: 1057

Society gains what?? You Amherst people kill me.

You guys are seriously overthinking this. Party A sells at a price he thinks will net him a profit. Party B is willing to buy at that price. That's all. No one gets hurt, and there is no "gain" outside of both parties getting exactly what they want.

Now, do I think this launch catastrophe is conveniently helpful to keeping Sony and PS3 in the headlines. Yep.

AND?? I'm still not buying one until next year.

zebadayus · Posts: 672

Sony was both hoping for, and planned for all this to happen.

GcDiaz · Posts: 1057

Waffen wrote:

and this: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1560635,00.html

LOL

Jesus WTF. This couldn't be a regular Time staffer. It reads worse than IGN, and is nothing more than a hit job. There are reasons, legit ones, to not buy into the hype yet. He lists none.

Mister Toups · Posts: 4943

Yeah I'm a little baffled at this exploitation talk. I just find the whole circus to be amusing.

Jeff Garneau · Posts: 1622

GcDiaz wrote:

Society gains what?? You Amherst people kill me.

say i have an orange. it's worth $1 to me. you want it more. it's worth $2 to you. you have $1.50, i have no money. i sell it to you at $1.50.

wealth of society before trade:
me: $0 cash, $1 orange.
you: $1.50 cash, no orange.
total: $2.50

after trade:
me: $1.50 cash, no orange
you: $0 cash, $2 orange
total: $3.50

p.s. i go to hampshire college where bong rips are institutionalized.

p.p.s. i don't smoke pot k?

dmauro · Posts: 933

dhex wrote:

gears of war is 3rd person. no dice.

You'll understand when you play it.

dmauro · Posts: 933

Playstation 3
Without rumble, it just ain't a jungle

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

dmauro wrote:

Black sucks. I stole it for free and it wasn't worth the time spent fetching it. Couldn't even make it through the second level. Yuck. Get a 360 and play Gears of War with us instead.

dmauro you are dead to me now.

GcDiaz · Posts: 1057

Jeff Garneau wrote:

GcDiaz wrote:

Society gains what?? You Amherst people kill me.

say i have an orange. it's worth $1 to me. you want it more. it's worth $2 to you. you have $1.50, i have no money. i sell it to you at $1.50.

wealth of society before trade:
me: $0 cash, $1 orange.
you: $1.50 cash, no orange.
total: $2.50

after trade:
me: $1.50 cash, no orange
you: $0 cash, $2 orange
total: $3.50

You think that actually helps? This so-called societal worth is artificial, all in your head. In other words, the only things of real value are the orange, and the money paid for it, and they are only of value to the actual parties in the transaction. Society does not benefit, unless somehow the entire FL-CA citrus market decides to base its price and production quotas on this one deal. Again, real things.

PS: Sellers should never be without operating capital. If you can't absorb a total loss, you're asking for trouble.

showka · Posts: 994

GcDiaz wrote:

Waffen wrote:

and this: http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1560635,00.html

LOL

Jesus WTF. This couldn't be a regular Time staffer. It reads worse than IGN, and is nothing more than a hit job. There are reasons, legit ones, to not buy into the hype yet. He lists none.

Time wrote:

unless you have a top-notch TV, the difference isn't mind-blowing.

Time wrote:

naming a computer chip is like naming your genitals: you're compensating for something

Time wrote:

Resistance isn't enough to drive sales of a $600 console, or it shouldn't be.

Time wrote:

Playstation 3 doesn't have a battle-tested, feature-rich online service the way the Xbox does.

Time wrote:

It doubles as a Blu-Ray DVD player (that's the main reason for the high retail price), but guess what? Nobody cares.

Time wrote:

And did I mention Playstation 3 controllers don't rumble?

I think he hits most of the major points against the PS3. And the online service hasn't proven itself yet.

GcDiaz · Posts: 1057

I meant more like, "after the holiday rush passes, Sony will be able to get more units to the market in the US and Japan, as well as finally launching the console in Europe as promised. The current shortage should not drive anyone to desperation."

dhex · Posts: 2963

dmauro · Posts: 933

dhex wrote:

You'll understand when you play it.

i don't know anyone with an xbox360 though.

You were supposed to come over with wilkes and fort the day it released!

dmauro · Posts: 933

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

dmauro wrote:

Black sucks. I stole it for free and it wasn't worth the time spent fetching it. Couldn't even make it through the second level. Yuck. Get a 360 and play Gears of War with us instead.

dmauro you are dead to me now.

;_;

I'm totally confused as to how this game was supposed to be good. Or is this an elaborate joke? I don't get it.

dhex · Posts: 2963

well, after december 14th or so, then. i have a very busy schedule right now.

Mr. Mechanical · Posts: 1890

dmauro wrote:

Mr. Mechanical wrote:

dmauro wrote:

Black sucks. I stole it for free and it wasn't worth the time spent fetching it. Couldn't even make it through the second level. Yuck. Get a 360 and play Gears of War with us instead.

dmauro you are dead to me now.

;_;

I'm totally confused as to how this game was supposed to be good. Or is this an elaborate joke? I don't get it.

No joke, son. Black is the bees knees, as the brits would put it. Original Black topic cited for reference.

firenze · Posts: 654

GcDiaz wrote:

This so-called societal worth is artificial, all in your head.

Actually, Garneau is dead on with his economic theory. Whether you think it's artificial or not, it's widely accepted as a truth to economists. Net social benefit is indeed greater when everyone maximizes their personal value. I know that it's sometimes hard to accept things as that simple by using common sense, but he certainly deserves an A in Macroeconomics class.

Think of another example without the monetary aspect. I have a jacket that's too small for me so I can't wear it, but it fits my brother perfectly and he really likes it. He has a tennis racket that he's never going to use because he hates tennis (poorly chosen gift, perhaps), and I really want to play some tennis but I don't have a racket. If we trade the jacket for the tennis racket, no new goods are being created. But both of us would agree that we're better off. In fact, we had utility of zero in the previous state where I had the jacket and he had the tennis racket. But now he has some utility from the jacket, and I from the tennis racket. It's like we created something from nothing! But really just reallocation of resources to the person who values them the most. I.e. - one person values having a PS3 more than the other guy does, and the seller values a particular amount of cash money more than a PS3 in hand.

That being said, I have one of them fancy business learnin' degrees and I do understand general economic theory. I also think it's bordering on creepy how much of it is popping up in threads about my video games. Doesn't allow me to seperate life from entertainment or something like that.

dmauro · Posts: 933

My roommate owns it (he has no good excuse) so I will throw it in the 360 right now and give it another go.