IC Forum Archive

Psiga · Posts: 3990

One probably needs to be tripping on something hallucinogenic while watching the last two episodes. To better understand how utterly bent out of their minds the staff must've been while coming up with that madness.

Artistic and unreasonable. The ending left me feeling nothing in particular, aside from a little dazed. Not to say that it was bad! Um. It was art.

It's quite an interesting work in the whole Japanese animation field, I will give it that without hesitating. Thanks again to those who got me to continue watching the series.

Something about this reminds me of Akira. It's a bit tenuous, I'll admit -- it's just that what Akira represented to those who equated anime with western cartoons back when anime was first coming to America, Kemonozume may ultimately represent to those who equate anime with the shit like Pokeyman and Pretty Boi Gundam that comes to America from Japan. Now we know what anime is, but then unfortunately now we know what anime is. Kemonozume is the kind of thing that fucks with your expectations.

That's my take on it, anyway, fresh off the last episode.

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

i agree with psiga!!

jachbla · Posts: 13

Spoiler:I just finished watching the episode. I'm also not sure how I feel now about the whole series. After the first few episodes, there was this sense of impending tragedy, this weight which was cast over everything that was happening. The initial setup (indeed, the very premise) was always fantastic and surreal, but somehow believable. I guess my suspension of disbelief was challenged by the final episodes. The payoff was somewhat more hollow than what came before it.

I dunno. The ending, while abstract, still felt like what I expect from modern anime. Maybe I was hoping to see something else.

I still think it was great overall. Maybe even important.

yo lan pa · Posts: 10

It was tragic. How can you watch ep 11 and 12 without feeling that?

But the show is about much more then just tragedy. It's violent and serene, comic and serious, beautiful and ugly, sensual and disgusting, feminine and masculine, childish and mature, elegant and gratuitous, real and surreal, deceptive and honest, cruel and kind, quiet and joyous, loved and lonely, bitter and sweet, simple and incomprehensible.

It's about life, dude! and all that that implies. I can't imagine how that last episode could be anything other then all of those things combined.

jachbla · Posts: 13

Spoiler:I guess I just felt that the middle of the series had more breathing room, a chance to set up something that I don't think the final eps delivered fully. I would have loved to see another season.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

It did seem to just LEAP from everything making some semblance of sense to suddenly being on a nightmare bad-trip roller coaster ride to a place where physics, biology, and rationality are of no use to anyone.

I'll put it this way: I just didn't get into what they did with the ending. Completing the series at 13 was fine -- it just needed to end in a way that didn't annihilate suspension of disbelief. All of the sympathy that was built up for the big players just ended up floating in limbo because nothing made sense anymore.

Would it have been better to have 26 episodes that slowly built up that psychotic ending, or 13 episodes that ended in an elegantly poignant way (good, bad, or otherwise)?

It's weird, though. I don't want to sound like I'm complaining. If this is the ending they wanted to make, then okay! It's still a very interesting series, and I'll go on recommending it to anyone who can handle cartoon gibs and boobies.

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

spoiler:motherfuckers can just not tolerate a happy ending

it's yuasa, after all.

also absolutely all of these posts should be spoiler texted

Psiga · Posts: 3990

Spoiler: I actually kinda expected our girl to get excited in the last seconds of the show and just fuckin' eat the guy.

I didn't think that it was an unhappy ending! Just that the execution wasn't the way I hoped it'd be.

yo lan pa · Posts: 10

Well if ep 11 was about rie and 12 was about kazuma, then 13 was definitely about ooba.

I think the issue here is that you guys felt it should have been about toshiko and/or yuka. I think that's a fair critism; I'm not completely sure that I don't agree.

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

god spoiler tag this shit this isn't the kemonozume thread and i don't want such a good series ruined for people :(

alice · Posts: 150

Okay, I want to clarify, I'm not a girl.

Moving on.

spoilers sorta:

Last episode of kemonozume was both weird surreal and yet fucking amazing. It set itself off from other series. It is now not merely the twisted plot, nor the art style nor the execution that sets kemonozume off from other series but the ending. As my friend remarked, he was hoping to see ooba have a painful death, but had trouble feeling hate towards ooba considering his actions in the last episode. IT wasn't cruel, it wasn't nice, I suppose it's best described as insanity. Moreover, I love how the series builds up to the moment, every episode seemingly dropping a bit of sense. Psiga, you remarked how the first three episodes made the series seem generic with a unique execution. You quickly retracted this after the fourth episode. The tension continues to build bit by bit and the plot becomes more and more chaotic. By episode 9 ish, we realize that ooba is the mastermind behind everything, we learn of his power, we realize we were decieved. From 9 on, the series delves into Oobas insanity, which, in itself, seems to lead to Oobas demise, but then, as he is insane, his demise is no longer particularly signifigant, and thus, very short lived. The resolution is quick, and not stunning, but in effect, ridiculously profound.

Of course, the ending, is only part of the greatness of kemonozume.

But my fingers are burning in RSI.

Whats bartender about?

Psiga · Posts: 3990

alice wrote:

Okay, I want to clarify, I'm not a girl.

Noted! (I've had some people assume that I'm a girl, and I don't even have an obviously misleading nickname.)

Bartender is about the stories of people who go to a specific bar. The bartender uses his magical bartender abilities to give them exactly the drink they need at that moment in their lives in order to overcome some issue that they're having. It is slow but classy.

alice · Posts: 150

Mmm, classy, slow.......... mebbe I'll try one episode. Now that I'm done with kemonozume and quit chevalier, theres really nothing that I'm keeping up with. Except maybe deathnote, but I show that in my anime club so I wont have to watch it at home :D.

In other note, does anyone think the final final final scene in ep 13 of kemonozum was the absolute greatest most touching moment in the history of all anime. I should make it my wallpaper...

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

god do i have to say it again

LegatoB · Posts: 1546

God damn it, people, some of us want to see if people have posted new stuff in the thread not about Kemonozume without potentially spoiling themselves because they're waiting for the HD versions. Use fucking black text already.

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

or better yet, could psiga or someone split this into a kemonozume (spoilers within) thread so the people who have seen it can discuss it.

seriously, are you all that incapable of following directions?

alice · Posts: 150

the vinculum gate wrote:

or better yet, could psiga or someone split this into a kemonozume (spoilers within) thread so the people who have seen it can discuss it.

seriously, are you all that incapable of following directions?

no, but I am incapable of reading what you said. I thought you said "spoiler tag is shit" as opposed to "spoiler tag that shit" so I didn't bother. That, and the fact that I didn't think my post was really that much of a spoiler although in retrospect, I guess it is. And the fact that I have no idea how to do the spoiler tag, help?

And sorry if I spoiled it for anyone, not that it really matters, its more like one of those series that can't be spoiled.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

Directions from you, anyway. I'll split it after I get back from food eatin'.

EDIT: spoiler tags are when you colorize text to either [color=black][/color] or [color=#212121][/color].

Psiga · Posts: 3990

Split! Now all the spoiler tags are off by one post color.

I'm going to nuke a post to put things back in order. Sorry Ging!

Ging wrote:

I've known what anime is since FLCL.

Just watched ep 9 of kemonozume. Fucking amazing.

EDIT: I just finished ep 13.

This was something. It was totally something very good.

I have no idea how I should feel about this.

yo lan pa · Posts: 10

alice wrote:

In other note, does anyone think the final final final scene in ep 13 of kemonozum was the absolute greatest most touching moment in the history of all anime.

I don't know if I'd describe it as 'touching'. More of an "oh fuck" moment, really.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

I didn't find it touching. It was more of a -- well, spoiler mania now, I guess. I won't bother with invisible text: Toshiko had been gored twice and lost a limb attached to a major artery. He could still jump around like a spry son of a bitch, though, and practically no blood as he went running and climbing all over the place. That he didn't die is bullshit; that they bothered to put him in that situation anyway is even more bullshit.

So fast forward to the final minute, where he's mysteriously all patched up. Yuka suddenly condemns herself to an island in the middle of nowhere, and Toshiko goes for it as well. How is that a happy ending? Perhaps 'touching' in the sense of "LOVE CONQUERS ALL (RATIONALITY)! I SHALL JOIN YOU ON THIS DESERT ISLAND WHERE YOU SHALL SURELY EAT ME!"

The last pureblood Flesh Eater, strong enough to kick the ass of a Kemonozume, and there's Toshiko recovering from major wounds and missing an arm. No bondage sex gear on that island, no no. Of course, so fucking what, the story no longer makes any sense anyway, so maybe they live happily ever after.

The reality that was created over the past 10 or 11 episodes was just thrown away at the end. Pepople were living and dying for irrational reasons, and I couldn't find myself empathizing with any character because I didn't know what was going on anymore. So something bad would happen to somebody, and I'm not sure what it means. Something good would happen to somebody, and I'm not sure what it means. Suspension of disbelief went bye-bye.

This is why it left me feeling nothing in particular, aside from dazed.

And again, it's a great series. Worth watching, etc. etc., but what the hell.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

Ooh, I like the way wikipedia handles episode lists.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kemonozume#List_of_Episodes

alice · Posts: 150

yo lan pa wrote:

alice wrote:

In other note, does anyone think the final final final scene in ep 13 of kemonozum was the absolute greatest most touching moment in the history of all anime.

I don't know if I'd describe it as 'touching'. More of an "oh fuck" moment, really.

Nuuuu, I mean the very very last scene with toshiko's master.

As for the other last scene, I must say, it was a pretty fit ending. There's a bit of a deus ex machina in much of the last episode, such as toshiko's newfound power to reduce the size of wounds, regenerate blood at superhuman speeds etc. However, as the last episode is already so insane, it's not hard to overlook the logical fallacies. Toshiko running off the plane without the parachute gives a interesting but strong effect, I can't really describe it.

Oh, and I just noticed, this scene is very much like the pool scene back at episode 4 or so where toshiko and yuka are holding hands in the pool. That's kinda cool, revisting the magical romantic moment, except this time, the image isn't ruined.

yo lan pa · Posts: 10

Yeah, the monkey scene. I mean, maybe if he wasn't such a carefree playboy I could see where you're coming from... but to go from just chilling in a crate full of juicy peaches, to that situation, for that type of guy, with that expression on his face... call me cynical, but that's an "oh fuck" moment.

internisus · Posts: 961

Everytime I start watching Kenomozume, I feel suddenly that I'm not ready for it and stop. I have 1-13 on my hard drive. How might I prepare myself?

Also, are there only 13 episodes? So I have the whole series?

Psiga · Posts: 3990

You prepare yourself by shutting up and watching! The series changes pace a lot, and you'll be resetting yourself from one episode to the next anyway. It's a fucking cool series but not deep and meaningful in the Mind Game sense. Just roll into it.

And yeah, 13 is the complete series.

internisus · Posts: 961

Really? I thought it was going to more deep and meaningful than Mind Game.

Well, I also have Gunbuster Renewal and Gunbuster 2 to watch, so maybe I'll watch them first for some interesting formal contrast.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

Definitely not more deep, no. No, no. The irrationality of love, and the struggle against instinct in a complicated world. What will they become when they are driven to their extremes, etc.

Moreover, the first 3 episodes are a bit blasé in my opinion, so you can just jump in and let it build up your mood from there.

Unrelatedly: Gunbuster 2 is fucking beautiful eyecandy, regardless of story.

alice · Posts: 150

yes, but it's certainly a bit more acceptable than mindgames. Seriously, you can't get any deeper than mindgames because mindgames is life. At least without minimalism anyways, oh fuck you minimalism.

Part of the reason why kemonozume is great though is beacuse it gives you both the depth and art and rather esoteric (or at least I'd like to say it is) enjoyment but it's not too profound like mindgames thus, much easier to accept.

alice · Posts: 150

Plothole filling time!

And spoilers:

Has anyone figured out the exact relation between harumi and yuka.. I mean if yuka is actually harumi's illegitimate daughter.. doesn't that make.... Ew.

Also, Any ideas on why they show yuka stabbing what looks like the old kifuken dojo head. I mean, this doesn't make sense in two ways. One, the guy is suppose to be already dead, and two, why the hell would yuka kill him.

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

it was a harumi clone sent by ooba to destabilize the kiifuken, i think.

also, the pure irrationality of the last few episodes works because of its context (everything starts getting really surreal, ooba's motives are more and more unclear)

the irrationality of love theme extends into the narrative itself as more and more irrational, impossible things happen because a man is trying to save his lover.

it's quite clever, really.

alice · Posts: 150

aye aye, glad someone agrees. Clever it is, but when I think about it, it's really amazing that they are able to convey this progression into surrealness. Its a gradient, a slow ease in, rather than sudden. Except, it's for the general feel rather than say something more tangible, like art style, or plot development etc. Honestly, I have to say, that the only other series I've seen that properly executes something similar is paranoia agent.

Psiga · Posts: 3990

A slow ease in? Enjoy your krak, gentlemen.

alice · Posts: 150

urr, easein, as in not sudden hoerusach.r,suchaslheuk khnrach.krh /me stabs.

I mean to say it isn't sudden, but cleverly articulated so it flows.

Thtas the word, Flow.

the vinculum gate: why is your avvy and sig made of pure awesomeness?

the vinculum gate · Posts: 2868

well psiga the irrational is subtle at first, with the transformation of ooba's tower, before toshiko & co. even arrive and the real strangeness begins.

also alice, it is a protest against insert credit angst. blue skies, freedom, and happiness :D

or it just looks nice :(

alice · Posts: 150

Nuuu! I accidentally highlighted it! My will to live is gone! You and your damn spoilers :O.