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extralife
Posts: 3316
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: Casino Royale |
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| Shit guys, this movie is really good. Everyone with a passing interest in Bond needs to check it out. Good stuff. |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:38 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, the trailers seem to indicate a return to classic Bond in many ways. I haven't cared about Bond since Goldeneye, but I think I'm going to see this. |
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bort
Posts: 319
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:45 am Post subject: |
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The director did Goldeneye too, which I think is probably objectively the best Bond movie. I do not say my favorite, because it isn't, and it probably isn't a lot of people's because everybody's seen all of them and have picked up a favorite or two along the way but yeah.
Goldeneye was really good. I hope this is as good. |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| I didn't know that, and it's funny you said it now, because after my post I started looking for a torrent for Goldeneye. I do remember it being excellent, though that may have a great deal to do with the N64. |
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ReroRero
Posts: 2148
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:57 am Post subject: |
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| I'll probably swing by the cinema when it's on, like I did with the other films from Goldeneye onwards. Even though I don't think Daniel Craig is suave enough looking for the role of Bond, looks like he should be off playing footy or something. |
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extralife
Posts: 3316
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:15 am Post subject: |
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I think it's kind of strange that the dude that did Goldeneye was responsible for this. Other than the "the chick is not completely worthless!" angle, this movie is nothing like Goldeneye. Goldeneye was sort of steeped in telling an interesting story with maybe interesting characters, set accross a backdrop of some sort of political intrigue. It didn't really need the Bond license. Casino Royale, on the other hand, is based entirely on the mystique of Bond; the scenery, the dialogue, the play between Bond and the girl(s). It gets inside Bond, but it does so with a very minimal plot and absolutely zero background information or overt character development. This is definitely a Bond movie about Bond. And it's chic as all hell without lazily relying on a tux and familiar lines.
And it's well written! A Bond movie that is well written! |
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sethsez
Posts: 1977
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:53 am Post subject: |
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ReroRero wrote:
I'll probably swing by the cinema when it's on, like I did with the other films from Goldeneye onwards. Even though I don't think Daniel Craig is suave enough looking for the role of Bond, looks like he should be off playing footy or something.
The movie definitely convinces you that this is a man whose confidence and way with words can get him into any woman's panties.
Also, I'm going to go out on a limb and say this is a better movie than Goldeneye, and as a Bond film it's at least its equal. Hopefully this does really well and winds up sending the message that we want more films like this and less like Die Another Day, though it seems every ten years or so a "back to basics" Bond movie is made and then slowly but surely everything gets ridiculous. Of course, if that happens I don't see Daniel Craig sticking around... he's wonderful when he's playing the thuggish hitman type (much like the character in the books), but I just can't see him doing schlocky Roger Moore-isms. |
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simplicio
Posts: 505
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 9:46 am Post subject: |
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Cross post:
It's pretty good! I mean, the last half hour only exists to showcase a transformation into "Bond, James Bond," but for the rest of it it's all a physical, scrapping, surprisingly mortal adventure. And, note that it's only "Bond, James Bond" after shooting a guy in the leg with an assault rifle, rather than just sidling up with a martini. I mean, maybe it's late to the party in that, after the Bourne movies, Tony Jaa, Jason Statham and MI:III, but I think it's a turn for the better, after 10 years of unadulterated shit and wasting Pierce Brosnan's tenure in everything since Goldeneye. |
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DeusJester
Posts: 1388
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Going to see it tomorrow. Can't wait! |
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Kazu
Posts: 894
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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... if that isn't a reason to watch that movie, then there isn't a reason at all.
Get the huge wp-version for your desktop now.
Gosh, who would have thought that Aston Martin would have the best-looking car of the last twenty years or so. |
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aderack
Posts: 5018
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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It looks like... a car.
The geometry of the top of the cab is a little unusual.
I don't think I'd fit in it. |
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ReroRero
Posts: 2148
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| The shot is more angled than top-down which is probably why you find it unusual. |
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Jeff Garneau
Posts: 1622
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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man i am so stoked on this movie.
i enjoy big-budget american action movies so goddamn much. especially if they have intrigue. |
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Maztorre
Posts: 1175
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 5:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Batman and Robin : Batman Begins :: Die Another Day : Casino Royale |
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Toto
Posts: 498
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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So the comparison is failure : good thing?
I can't cope with a blonde Bond personally; the look is completely off-putting to me. Especially some South African. But I will see this movie, as I also like big budget action movies. |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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Maztorre wrote:
Batman and Robin : Batman Begins :: Die Another Day : Casino Royale
Sold. |
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James
Posts: 1735
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| There's a bit in SPOILERS FOR Layer Cake where D. Craig has to assasinate a guy. His mannerisms are pure Bond. I think as an actor he has the potential to transcend Connery and make the role is own, provided the scripts he's fed are good enough. The Metal Gear Solid bullshit in the last Bond Flick was way, way too much. |
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sethsez
Posts: 1977
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Toto wrote:
I can't cope with a blonde Bond personally; the look is completely off-putting to me. Especially some South African.
You will be convinced that he is James Bond by the end. Nobody has owned the role this much since Connery. |
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km
Posts: 171
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Posted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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This is definitely my favorite Bond movie.
I really enjoyed Bond actually acting like a human being instead of a suave machine. I liked seeing his gadgets get him into trouble. I liked his stupid toys failing on him. I like seeing Bond physically bested (the freerunning guy who really did found freerunning). I like seeing Bond being more human, but still, in the end, be nothing but Bond. To continue having a never-ending sense of duty, and to accept self sacrifice.
I like how this "Bond girl" had meaning outside of Bond. She wasn't a floozy, and she wasn't a bitch, and she was girl next door not, not supermodel hot (which is... even hotter).
This Bond film makes him seem way more fallible and fragile, and brings into light his acute mortality. And that just makes everything he does way, way cooler.
Also, the beginning was... fucking awesome. Not my favorite Bond song, but the the visuals were great. So was the blood oozing over the gun barrel thing, whatever you call it.
Easily the best movie I've seen in a long time. |
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James
Posts: 1735
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Wikipedia wrote:
In the Playstation game 007 Racing (2000), the character R (voiced by John Cleese) specifically says: Q could drive better than that, and he's dead!. The game's canonicity is debatable however (as is the good taste of the line itself, given that Llewelyn died in a car crash).
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extralife
Posts: 3316
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:55 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, all that stuff was awesome. Seriously. I also really enjoyed how he seemed to get really frustrated during the poker game. You could tell he was a bit uncomfortable. And yeah, that is of course crystalized in his "Does it look like I give a damn?" line. Good stuff.
Watch this movie, and you will know within thirty seconds that they mean business with this franchise again. |
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Perseus
Posts: 72
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:30 am Post subject: |
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| Yep, this movie is awesome. The actual action set-pieces felt a little bit standard (especially the last one which was pretty over-the-top compared the rest of the film), but Daniel Craig does a brilliant job as Bond. I can't wait to see where they take this with the next movie- which I hear will have an original story (for the first time?)! |
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km
Posts: 171
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Also, christ, that scene... You know, the one with the rope?
OH GOD.
BOND IS A REAL MAN'S MAN. |
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shnozlak
Posts: 704
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I love how it uses bond streotypes to play with the audience a little bit. |
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Mr. Mechanical
Posts: 1890
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm seeing this movie tonight! Hopefully! Most probably! I can't wait! |
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ModNarco
Posts: 274
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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shnozlak wrote:
I love how it uses bond streotypes to play with the audience a little bit.
Like how they used the Bond car? |
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Karoshi
Posts: 968
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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As Tim succinctly illustrated earlier, the literary Bond is much more rugged than movie Bond.
If I remember correctly he pushed/crushed Oddjob out of an airplane's window, a la the xenomorph in Alien Resurrection.
I am looking forward to seeing this.
But holy crap:
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George
Posts: 1656
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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simplicio wrote:
I mean, maybe it's late to the party in that, after the Bourne movies, Tony Jaa, Jason Statham and MI:III, but I think it's a turn for the better, after 10 years of unadulterated shit and wasting Pierce Brosnan's tenure in everything since Goldeneye.
The irony of the 007 franchise is that there are Bond pastiches (Metal Gear Solid, Transporter, Bourne Identity) that are better than the original series. Now we finally have a Bond that's lives up to the potential shown in the copycats, and this is important. |
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sethsez
Posts: 1977
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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Metal Gear Solid's plot has never been better than Bond, except maybe Moonraker. It's just as stupid and overwrought as the dumber Bonds, except people don't seem to care because that kind of thing is expected in a videogame so it's easily tuned out. Transporter didn't really have much to do with Bond stylings either.
Bourne is great, though. The first one anyway. |
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George
Posts: 1656
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Metal Gear Solid and Casino Royale give the audience an emotional connection with the main character, which was a bigger problem than stupid and overwrought plots (though I did like the greater realism of this Bond). |
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108
Posts: 2600
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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man, i really wish i could see this thing already -- it comes out here on december 1st, the day before the Wii launch!
me, in the spider-man thread wrote:
aderack wrote:
I wonder if the new movie will have John Cleese in it.
EDIT: He isn't listed, though Judi Dench is back as M.
No, Q isn't in Casino Royale. Neither is Miss Moneypenny. It's based on the very first James Bond story, you know. Of, basically, how "James Bond" became "007".
See, the thing to note about James Bond is that he is a trained killer, and he's rather ruthless and cautious about it. The movies play up the "secret agent" aspect; the books tend to focus on the targets of Bond's missions. They read like profiles of villains. The movies play up the villain's eccentricities, and kind of turn them into cartoons.
Bond is somewhat superstitious. "Casino Royale" is his first big mission (basically, he has to win a huge game of baccarat to bankrupt a KGB funder) and during it, he genuinely falls in love with a girl. The bad guy uses Bond's love of this girl to, as it were, raise the stakes.
What it comes down to is a real emotional investment in the mission on Bond's part. And by the end, he's had something of an emotional scarring. This is basically how Ian Fleming set up Bond as a ladies' man for the rest of the series. Ever since that mission, it's kind of a superstition of his, that he has to have a woman involved. Notice how he picks up and sleeps with the first girl he meets on-site at every mission? Like Solid Snake would be searching for a gun. It's obviously a psychological complex of his.
What the movies have never captured of the books is how James Bond genuinely and sincerely falls in "actual love" with all of the "Bond girls". In the movies the "love" aspect is always trivialized, and turned into just plain something to stare at. The girls who survive until the end of the mission are always given a final love scene, and if the image fades to black while they're kissing, the viewer generally gets the impression that, once the credits have started rolling, Bond opens his eyes, asks the girl who the hell she is, puts on his clothes, and walks out the door. Such is the near-robotic nature of the James Bond character.
In a way, you could say that his "always" "falling in love" with a girl is merely an expression that the author would find a spy story boring without some kind of love interest. In other words, the girls -- and, then, Bond's complexes surrounding them -- are narrative devices. Everything is a narrative device. This would make it pointless to argue continuity; Bond's relationships with women are as individually significant as Wile E. Coyote's hospital bills.
In other words, yes, the stories are all fluff.
The Bond character quickly became a legend; and then, eventually, became a pretty huge joke. He became something everyone wanted to parody.
Had it not been for Sean Connery, however, few people today would know who Bond is. Few people would have cared to give Roger Moore a shot if Connery hadn't already built up the notion of who the character was. Connery gave James Bond a voice and a personality just slightly different from the novels. The Bond in the novels isn't funny. He's charming, though he's always thinking about his mission. Sometimes he speaks a little strangely.
In the movies, it's "A vodka martini. Shaken, not stirred."
In the books, it's "A dry martini. In a deep champagne goblet. Three measures of Gordons, one of Vodka, and half a measure of Kina Lillet. Shake it very well until it's ice cold, then add a thin slice of lemon peel."
At any rate!
An American television company bought the rights to the Casino Royale story, and then did a shitty TV movie of it in 1954. No one cared. Then, when EON started making Bond films and the character attained worldwide fame, the owners of the original Casino Royale rights made a shitty parody movie as a cash-in attempt. Now, EON has the rights to Casino Royale once again, so that's where this movie is coming from.
Man!! It looks pretty good, too. There will obviously be a lot more action than in the book, which is par for the course (it apparently opens with an elaborate action set piece, as per Bond film tradition). Though it also seems to be that Daniel Craig is so different from Pearce Brosnan because they wanted him to be able to act the character in a . . . well, a new way. They basically want him to not rely on the colossal image of the character. They want him to try to be himself. You know. The way Sean Connery did. It's no secret that the "movie Bond" was born because Sean Connery basically added a thin layer of his own personality on top of the script for "Dr. No" and then "From Russia with Love", which had bascially just added a thin layer of personality on top of the books. What they're doing with "Casino Royale" is, apparently, ignoring Bond's reputation and playing it straight.
It's actually a pretty big gamble for them! Because if the actor isn't a hit, then it's a failure. Judging by the trailer, I think this Craig guy is totally perfect. Some are comparing him to Timothy Dalton, though I think that's kind of unfair. He seems to have his own nuances, he's not just robotically going through nuance-resembling motions like Dalton was. Craig has emotion and he's not sappy. He has humor though he would look vaguely wrong grinning in a tuxedo. He's an interesting actor for an interesting character.
To think there were people boycotting this film because Craig has blond hair!! "James Blond", they were calling him. Man! Sick fuckers in this world!! He has blue eyes, though. James Bond is supposed to have "piercing blue eyes" -- I don't recall any "look at Bond's blue eyes!!" shots in any other Bond movies, and lord knows I've seen them all a dozen times. Even the really bad ones.
The worst Bond movie, if you ask me, is "The World is not Enough."
The best is "From Russia with Love"! The second-best would be "Goldfinger" or "You Only Live Twice" -- the former for its tight plot, the latter for its complete ridiculousness.
"Goldeneye", however, is very, very, very good. So I'm glad "Casino Royale" is by the same director. I'm certain he can pull this one together.
I will go see it on opening day!!
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Mr. Mechanical
Posts: 1890
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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ModNarco wrote:
shnozlak wrote:
I love how it uses bond streotypes to play with the audience a little bit.
Like how they used the Bond car?
That was awesome, what they did with the Bond car.
Yeah, saw it. It was pretty great. I hope the next one's just as good, but this movie will be a tought act to follow. |
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Mr. Mechanical
Posts: 1890
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 10:39 pm Post subject: |
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Karoshi wrote:
But holy crap:
Oh. My. God.
Is Hasselhoff involved? |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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| I need to understand something. What is the deal with that poster? Is the Knight Rider franchise being restored as well? Is a film in the works? What's going on here? |
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James
Posts: 1735
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 1:48 am Post subject: |
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George wrote:
simplicio wrote:
I mean, maybe it's late to the party in that, after the Bourne movies, Tony Jaa, Jason Statham and MI:III, but I think it's a turn for the better, after 10 years of unadulterated shit and wasting Pierce Brosnan's tenure in everything since Goldeneye.
The irony of the 007 franchise is that there are Bond pastiches (Metal Gear Solid, Transporter, Bourne Identity) that are better than the original series. Now we finally have a Bond that's lives up to the potential shown in the copycats, and this is important.
Metal Gear Solid is complete rubbish compaired to Bond |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 4:45 am Post subject: |
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| Bond is complete rubbish compared to Metal Gear Solid. |
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km
Posts: 171
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:34 am Post subject: |
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James wrote:
Metal Gear Solid is complete rubbish compaired to Bond
internisus wrote:
Bond is complete rubbish compared to Metal Gear Solid.
Ladies and gentlemen! Sound the alarm! There is a disagreement on Insert Credit!
Wait you're just being contrary whut |
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sethsez
Posts: 1977
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 3:25 pm Post subject: |
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internisus wrote:
Bond is complete rubbish compared to Metal Gear Solid.
I......
what |
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shnozlak
Posts: 704
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Mr. Mechanical wrote:
ModNarco wrote:
shnozlak wrote:
I love how it uses bond streotypes to play with the audience a little bit.
Like how they used the Bond car?
That was awesome, what they did with the Bond car.
Yeah, saw it. It was pretty great. I hope the next one's just as good, but this movie will be a tought act to follow.
:Spoliers: (duh)
Yeah the car chase that wasnt and the would-be bond girl that gets torture-killed before the real deal shows up.
Also: free running |
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George
Posts: 1656
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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internisus wrote:
Bond is complete rubbish compared to Metal Gear Solid.
Casino Royale is the best possible movie that could be made out of MGS 3. While I realize it's based on a book that came out decades ago, it feels like they took MGS 3 and removed The Boss to condense the story down to 2 and a half hours. Hell, the Eva character is played by an actress named Eva Green! |
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extralife
Posts: 3316
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 6:58 pm Post subject: |
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But there is no references to historical importance or any "sacraficing for your country" vibe in Casino Royale.
Saying it's like MGS3 "without The Boss" is kind of like saying it isn't like MGS3. |
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sethsez
Posts: 1977
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, they're alike in that they both have spies in them. |
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Maztorre
Posts: 1175
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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sethsez wrote:
Yeah, they're alike in that they both have spies in them.
Sold!! |
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extralife
Posts: 3316
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| There's more to it than that, to be fair. The Vesper/Eva comparision isn't a bad one, and both are clearly origin stories that explain the decadent behaviour of their leads. |
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George
Posts: 1656
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Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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And really, if you've got to condense that down into a movie that must contain plenty of action, the origin story and love story is more essential than The Boss and the historical stuff (well in MGS 3 Big Boss/The Boss was the strongest love, so I guess you could say Vespa is a combination of Eva and The Boss). There's also a nice twist involving a CIA agent in both. And a third act torture scene that establishes what a badass the hero is.
However, crying blood is NOT as cool as fists of lightning. Especially since Le Chiffre doesn't keep Raiden around as a gay lover. |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:36 am Post subject: |
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Bond has never been simultaneously believably epic and absurdly bizarre as MGS. Also, I've never felt anything strongly about a Bond movie. Though I think once an Aston Martin made my penis move.
I rented Goldeneye last night and watched it, haven't seen it since like '96. It's really awesome! There's a non-stop set-to-set-to-set chase aspect to it that gets almost tiresome, and some scene cuts are incredibly abrupt like in really old movies, but mostly everything about it is far, far better than the movies that came after it. That's what I had vaguely remembered, but I wanted to confirm it. I've never watched much Bond before that era, excepting occassional TV presentations whose names I never knew.
The opening sequence especially surprised me as being teriffic, because every one since then has made me cringe. Right from the start, it's excellent. That moment when the small-size Bond figure fires his gun and the giant woman head breathes flames from her mouth back at him in the same moment really kicks it off. Also, I have this DVD for like a week, so maybe I'll watch some features and stuff. |
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The Soviet Onion
Posts: 6
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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Similar to a lot of American cultural output these days, Casino Royale seemed very feminised to me (no women in the opening theme sequence, re-iteration of information, the focus on Craig as an object of desire etc.). It was a James Bond movie that didn't trust it's audience to have the tinest understanding of James Bond. Given that James Bond is the most immediately recognizable film franchise I can think of I find that worrying.
I understand that because of the bad run they've been having lately there must have been considerable demand for change. However in this case I think they've destroyed the village in order to save it. There have been many, many terrible James Bond movies in the past, but they've all been terrible James Bond movies. Casino Royale felt entirely in keeping with the current plague of remakes, as if the source material were some fleeting 60's television show.
Given that's the path we're now headed down, in a way I would like them to follow it to it's logical conclusion. Totally burn down James Bond, in order that it might rise again from it's own ashes. Have Bond have sex with a man, have him defect to the enemy, have him die.
As for GoldenEye, I don't know. It was made in a similar circumstance - following a string of bad Bond films - by the same director, and yet was arguably the best of the James Bond films. I'm tempted to attribute it to the golden age of SF effect. It had this strange balance between reverence and ridicule; clearly self-mocking, but self-mocking from a position of confidence. It updated James Bond whilst making clear why James Bond never needed to be updated. |
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extralife
Posts: 3316
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| The Soviet Onion I must say you are making a strong initial impression and I would like to see you post more. Also, I want to have sex with your user name. |
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internisus
Posts: 961
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| I was kind of thinking both of those things as well, except with less stroniness and more sex. |
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extralife
Posts: 3316
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Posted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Internisus lets make out. |
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