IC Forum Archive

Tezcat · Posts: 4

So, this is a first post--this just happened to me this weekend, and I thought the only ones to appreciate it would be the IC folks

On the way to the airport on thursday, I stopped at the EBgames right before the BART station to buy one game only-- Trauma Center-- to play as I was hopping from state to state. So, there's two reasons why- one, I read you guys gushing about it, and two, I was actually travelling to medical school interviews in houston and chicago.

What does Trauma Center mean if you actually want to be a doctor?

(I know the story can be ham-fisted towards the end--- but the beginning does have a lot of sincerity in it. Does it sound foolish to say I was moved by it?)

So I ask, do those playing Phoenix Wright have any lawyer aspirations? or medical for Trauma Center? Or anything else you can think of?

Legal Step · Posts: 1030

You need an avatar for me to support your thread ideas!

Rucio · Posts: 169

Says who?

internisus · Posts: 961

Actually, the fantasized vision of what a lawyer does offered by Pheonix Wright did make me feel very much like becoming a lawyer. I thought about it for a week, and then I went to court and came back to Earth when I saw that it's very disappointing and there is no real room for creativity or persuasive presentation. It's all procedure, though within that the representation does have the ability to negotiate with the judge. Still, I don't think I'm interested. I would have to see a different kind of law happening (rather than juvenile drug, assault, property damage, and shoplifting charges), something that actually sought to get to the truth of a case rather than merely process it.

I've always found expert witnesses kind of interesting.

Legal Step · Posts: 1030

Rucio wrote:

Says who?

I wasn't talking to you! Don't sass me boy. I'm telling you if you're going to espouse grand notions about DS gaming, an avatar helps you bring in the masses.

internisus · Posts: 961

Shh, Step. Be still.

I recall an IC frontpage news entry about a Japanese DS game with a graphic style similar to Pheonix Wright but much more serious that purported to train you to work in an office. I really want that game. In English, I mean. I need to find out if even office work can become appealing when represented in the abstract by a videogame.

Rucio · Posts: 169

I've been trying to find Pheonix Wright, but nowhere has it in stock. Damn you world!

Trauma Center gives me a feeling like I'm watching ER, or Grey's or House. That kind of life or death 24/7 sort of drama thing.

Real life is much more unfufilling and boring.

Koji · Posts: 571

internisus wrote:

Actually, the fantasized vision of what a lawyer does offered by Pheonix Wright did make me feel very much like becoming a lawyer. I thought about it for a week, and then I went to court and came back to Earth when I saw that it's very disappointing and there is no real room for creativity or persuasive presentation. It's all procedure, though within that the representation does have the ability to negotiate with the judge. Still, I don't think I'm interested. I would have to see a different kind of law happening (rather than juvenile drug, assault, property damage, and shoplifting charges), something that actually sought to get to the truth of a case rather than merely process it.

I've always found expert witnesses kind of interesting.

Would have expected nothing short of that coming from you, dear Guardian.

internisus · Posts: 961

You know, I actually am aware that 80% of my posts are pretty embarassing even as I write them. But that's the truth.

The other 20%, by the way, are ironic. Like certain joke threads that no one picks up on.

evnvnv · Posts: 333

Tezcat wrote:

So, this is a first post--this just happened to me this weekend, and I thought the only ones to appreciate it would be the IC folks

On the way to the airport on thursday, I stopped at the EBgames right before the BART station to buy one game only-- Trauma Center-- to play as I was hopping from state to state. So, there's two reasons why- one, I read you guys gushing about it, and two, I was actually travelling to medical school interviews in houston and chicago.

What does Trauma Center mean if you actually want to be a doctor?

(I know the story can be ham-fisted towards the end--- but the beginning does have a lot of sincerity in it. Does it sound foolish to say I was moved by it?)

So I ask, do those playing Phoenix Wright have any lawyer aspirations? or medical for Trauma Center? Or anything else you can think of?

i actually got the same kind of feeling from the beginning of trauma center, and being a doctor has been the most terrifying future imaginable for me for a really long time. I think thats why it was so appealing... lik emaybe even if i never have the balls to save real people in real life, i can at least cut out a shitload of GUILT.

Intentionally Wrong · Posts: 673

Legal Step wrote:

You need an avatar for me to support your thread ideas!

Guys quick delete your avatars. (Just kidding, Legal Step! I love you! Even if I did delete my avatar, because really, avatars are kind of dumb!)

Tezcat · Posts: 4

Haha-- sorry about the avatar thing. I actually just registered five minutes before the post. I'll be looking for one, so be patient.

evnvnv--- I guess I had the opposite feeling, knowing that this was exactly what I hoped to do (with the earlier operations, like removing glass and tumors). When GUILT starts up, it breaks with reality, but still, I felt that in some way, this entire game was some kind of proof that I wanted to be a doctor.

It definitely cleared my head before the interviews.

firenze · Posts: 654

internisus wrote:

there is no real room for creativity or persuasive presentation. It's all procedure, though within that the representation does have the ability to negotiate with the judge.

I don't agree at all that there's no room for creativity and persuasive presentation in law. Quite the opposite, a lot of cases are largely about crafting an argument to creatively persuade the decision maker that your case is more like "x" case where the law was interpreted a particular way. You don't make up the law, but it's very creative to shoehorn your facts into a "our situation is like this one here" scenario while the opposite side is trying to say "no it isn't, it's like this other one". There are indeed lots of areas of law that are very formulaic - bankruptcy, business formation, etc. But being a criminal trial lawyer? There's a ton of creative thinking involved in crafting the case.

Either way, by the time you actually get to court you've already done the preparation and creative thinking. That stuff is all won on the strength of your prior preparation. That's why Phoenix Wright is sort of disappointing and entiely unlike being a real trial lawyer to me. You go into the court in Phoenix Wright and you don't already know what you're going to say. You can just fumble through your inventory until you're given a cue you're on the right track.

Tramua Center seems to me to be a better representation of a surgeon's practice. The actual operation is all about precision, skill, and knowing what procedure to use. Then you get anime-style drama in between operations (just like real life, right?). Mind you I don't really know a whole lot about surgery but I actually do know a good bit about law.

internisus · Posts: 961

I already knew what you said in the second paragraph, and I was hoping for what you said in the first. When I mentioned that I'd like to see some types of law in action that I haven't yet, criminal trials were one thing I had in mind, I guess. I wonder how realistic tv dramas like Law & Order are. Maybe that would give me some idea. Or I could try to find a website online with court videos.

Anyway, I understand the lack of realism about preparation in Pheonix Wright, but that's what makes the court stages so fun. I wouldn't have it changed. However, I do think a game that primarily involved assembling your case outside the court -- as long as the play isn't strictly "investigative" as in those parts of Pheonix Wright -- could be very interesting, especially if it's based on the assembling of information somehow rather than some arrangement of objects. Though categorizing evidence could be one way to do it, I guess.

winkerwanker · Posts: 2414

internisus wrote:

Actually, the fantasized vision of what a lawyer does offered by Pheonix Wright did make me feel very much like becoming a lawyer. I thought about it for a week, and then I went to court and came back to Earth when I saw that it's very disappointing and there is no real room for creativity or persuasive presentation. It's all procedure, though within that the representation does have the ability to negotiate with the judge. Still, I don't think I'm interested. I would have to see a different kind of law happening (rather than juvenile drug, assault, property damage, and shoplifting charges), something that actually sought to get to the truth of a case rather than merely process it.

I've always found expert witnesses kind of interesting.

Life not like Ally McBeal shocker

internisus · Posts: 961

i've never watched that, i wonder if it's any good.

dongle · Posts: 236

I was set on being a lawyer for a long time, and Phoenix Wright's ridiculous glorification of the profession really appealed to me, then I followed some really disappointing judgments in the US courts and decided that I don't have the personality type to deal with people like sen stevens

evnvnv · Posts: 333

firenze wrote:

Tramua Center seems to me to be a better representation of a surgeon's practice. The actual operation is all about precision, skill, and knowing what procedure to use. Then you get anime-style drama in between operations (just like real life, right?). Mind you I don't really know a whole lot about surgery but I actually do know a good bit about law.

The strange thing about this game is that it is possible to try to play it like a real surgeon... or at least, someone that cares about the well being of the patient, but the further you go the more you are required to do things like continuously inject morphine into their lungs or something, and suture massive wounds in less than 1 second. You have to start playing it like a videogame, and then you realize you were being kind of silly for treating it like a simulation, because when you do something really fast it tells you you are COOL!

Someone should make a surgeon game in the style of those intense flight simulators, where it is actually almost as boring as real life. They should not do this with lawyer games, though.

Tezcat · Posts: 4

evnvnv-- You hit it. That's exactly where the game kind of falls apart for me. It becomes much more videogame twitchy-style action, with constantly injecting stabilizers. I suppose it's to increase the tension and drama of the operation, but it quickly feels much less like actual surgery.

Which is odd, because the GUILT operations aren't the only ones that have a lot of tension. There's the one op where you have to remove the shards of glass from a guy's heart, and the whole process of massaging the heart, pulling out the glass, etc. was actually really tense. If the developers had continued in that vein, it would have stayed a more 'surgery sim' kind of game, but probably wouldn't have been as much fun (cuz I love the battle against savato)

internisus · Posts: 961

I wish it stuck with the pacing and relative realism of the early missions, as well. In fact, I've always remembered that first mission with the shards of glass as my favorite, though I figured that might be in part because it introduces you to the game.

Jeff Garneau · Posts: 1622

internisus wrote:

Actually, the fantasized vision of what a lawyer does offered by Pheonix Wright did make me feel very much like becoming a lawyer. I thought about it for a week, and then I went to court and came back to Earth when I saw that it's very disappointing and there is no real room for creativity or persuasive presentation. It's all procedure, though within that the representation does have the ability to negotiate with the judge. Still, I don't think I'm interested. I would have to see a different kind of law happening (rather than juvenile drug, assault, property damage, and shoplifting charges), something that actually sought to get to the truth of a case rather than merely process it.

I've always found expert witnesses kind of interesting.

you should read the opinions of supreme court justices on major controversial cases. they're actually pretty interesting.

i used to fantasize about making an srpg that would only take place in courtrooms and all of your attacks and spells would be from giant lists of legal arguments which would work based on how relevant they were to the case. when you did well you would jump up to a higher court, where the case and facts would still be the same but the presentation would be much more overwrought and the enemies much tougher. you'd go all the way from the local level to state level and then whatever other levels there are and the 9th circuit court of appeals (seriously that just fucking sounds cool) and finally the supreme court.

also there would totally be like all kinds of writs you could issue like writ of mandamus and writ of habeas corpus.

internisus · Posts: 961

I like it! You could accomplish that with some kind of RPG Maker program, couldn't you? Do it for your Super Game Bakedown '07 project.

James · Posts: 1735

Jeff make sure you program a synthetic OS with transcendent real-time narrative change, OK

Jeff Garneau · Posts: 1622

james it would be all about presentation you should like it.

another god · Posts: 1629

Jeff Garneau wrote:

internisus wrote:

Actually, the fantasized vision of what a lawyer does offered by Pheonix Wright did make me feel very much like becoming a lawyer. I thought about it for a week, and then I went to court and came back to Earth when I saw that it's very disappointing and there is no real room for creativity or persuasive presentation. It's all procedure, though within that the representation does have the ability to negotiate with the judge. Still, I don't think I'm interested. I would have to see a different kind of law happening (rather than juvenile drug, assault, property damage, and shoplifting charges), something that actually sought to get to the truth of a case rather than merely process it.

I've always found expert witnesses kind of interesting.

you should read the opinions of supreme court justices on major controversial cases. they're actually pretty interesting.

i used to fantasize about making an srpg that would only take place in courtrooms and all of your attacks and spells would be from giant lists of legal arguments which would work based on how relevant they were to the case. when you did well you would jump up to a higher court, where the case and facts would still be the same but the presentation would be much more overwrought and the enemies much tougher. you'd go all the way from the local level to state level and then whatever other levels there are and the 9th circuit court of appeals (seriously that just fucking sounds cool) and finally the supreme court.

also there would totally be like all kinds of writs you could issue like writ of mandamus and writ of habeas corpus.

Have you ever done policy debate? It's like a round of Virtua Fighter.