IC Forum Archive

glitch · Posts: 216

so today's the elections in my country and our politics has rarely been such a mess. the past years we've had a right-wing cabinet of CDA (christian democrats), VVD (right wing, liberals) and D66 (winker option). they've made some pretty drastic changes to our social system and seriously cut down on education, mostly just to meet budgetting requirements imposed by the EU (not that France or Germany ever got in trouble for not even TRYING to meet these, but they're big and we're not). eventually, after getting trampled over ever since it's conception, D66 blew up this cabinet past summer because the VVD's minister of immigration tried to kick a Somalian member of her own party out of the country. that part was fun, yes. in recent years, cabinets more often than not explode before they've served their term.

maybe that needs a little elaboration for those not familliar with dutch politics.

the dutch people vote for their member of choice of their party of choice. this time there's about 14 parties to choose from (differs slightly from district to district) with each a whole list of members, so a few hundred candidates in total. most people just vote for the #1 of their favorite party though. of all these candidates, 150 end up in the "2e kamer" (which is kinda like the house of representitives i think). then the parties who are represented with many members in the 2e kamer try forming a coalition of at least 76 members (so that the coalition can always have a majority vote), and from these 76, the ministers and minister-president are taken to form the cabinet. usually the coalition consists of 2 or 3 parties.

this time however (judging by the polls) there likely won't even be a viable coalition of 4 parties that would add up to 76. the 2 biggest parties (right-wing CDA and left-wing PvdA) have been hating on eachother ferociously for the past years. the support for the previous coalition has decreased too much to make that work again. all left-wing parties together don't add up either. in other words, we're expecting a major mess. our democracy is failing.

so i thought why not ask IC instead?

Psiga · Posts: 3990

Good luck! (We're all doomed!)

dark steve · Posts: 3002

all those choices sound terrible

winkerwanker · Posts: 2414

Needs less political parties

glitch · Posts: 216

thanks Psiga. we'll need it.

the number of parties is sheer overkill yeah. they've got the dutch population pretty convinced of the importance of voting nowadays, but quite a lot of people end up picking something at random cause they're clueless who's who and what's what...

bort · Posts: 319

I thought you had a pedophile party that was all about free train rides or did that get killed?

glitch · Posts: 216

true!
but they retreated.
after a couple of death threats to the founders.

they wanted to legalize hard-drugs, make public transport free, and lower the age of consent (sp?) to 12.

don't worry, we've got enough idiots left.

TOLLMASTER · Posts: 1977

glitch · Posts: 216

TOLLMASTER wrote:

PvdA - popular socialism, at times fairly unrealistic. leader gained massive popularity for having a nice ass.

You consider Dutch politics a problem to be solved? From where I'm standing you have already attained the best democracy can ever get, man.

Well, maybe it could be better. If they supported a space program to construct a Dyson sphere in the next 10 years, then they would be even better. But you said fairly, not totally, unrealistic.

don't get me wrong, compared to the US's binary choice i totally prefer our hexidecimal system. and it has worked pretty well for a long time. it's just that these last years there have been so many parties (many lacking any experience in politics) and public opinion has become so splintered, that i'd really be suprised if whatever cabinet we get from these elections (if they manage to form one at all) will last more than a year.

makes for some awesome television though.

Captain EO · Posts: 371

Legal Step · Posts: 1030

The fate of the dutch political system is in the hands of an internet forum!

Sync-Swim · Posts: 634

Why do all Dutch people seemingly speak English so proficiently?

Also, the only European political party I vote for is C.N.T. F.A.I.

winkerwanker · Posts: 2414

voted PvDa or whatever

bort · Posts: 319

Ass-leader is a man btw.

That was disappointing.

James · Posts: 1735

you'd still hit it though right

glitch · Posts: 216

gosh, ~~Hitler~~ Wilders is popular on IC. also over here, now after 95+ % of the votes counted he went from 0 to 9 seats. that should piss off our 1 million muslims. expect major terrorist attacks soon.

also out of the blue, the "Party for the Animals" (missing in the poll, dammit) from 0 to 2!
SP (most left-wing party) grew from 9 to 26 seats!
the environment-loving elitists went from 8 to 7 (sniff, my party...), but does put a cool new asian chick in the 2e kamer!

and as expected, little chance of a decent coalition!
this is gonna get messy. ^-^

Sync-Swim wrote:

Why do all Dutch people seemingly speak English so proficiently?

only until you hear us...

extralife · Posts: 3316

bort wrote:

Ass-leader is a man btw.

That was disappointing.

vote retracted :(

finnagain · Posts: 181

Sync-Swim wrote:

Why do all Dutch people seemingly speak English so proficiently?

Because every time an American speaks Dutch to a Hollander, they reply in English.

I swear this is true. I lived there for a few years and picked up enough Dutch to read, say, a newspaper or young adult novel in the language. And I could speak enough Dutch to get though most conversations.

But if a stranger asked me a question -- say, "Kunt u mij (whatever) laten zien?" and I answered "Daar is het!" -- the Dutch conversation would immediately stop. "Oh, you are American!" they would say. And the rest of the conversation would be in English.

It's like the Dutch want to keep their language secret from all outsiders.

Explains a lot about the current political situation, in some ways.

Loolapaloozer · Posts: 209

winkerwanker wrote:

Needs less political parties

Heh. Here in Brazil we have 26, and other 10 in process of eligibility / legitimity.

TOLLMASTER · Posts: 1977

[quote="glitch"]also out of the blue, the "Party for the Animals" (missing in the poll, dammit) from 0 to 2!
SP (most left-wing party) grew from 9 to 26 seats!
the environment-loving elitists went from 8 to 7 (sniff, my party...), but does put a cool new asian chick in the 2e kamer!/quote]

Party for the Animals? I'm trying to decide if that's a party that supports animal suffrage, or one composed of former Animal House members. Either way, I support their seatage in your Dutch government.

Also, Asian chick in Dutchlaund? LIES

glitch · Posts: 216

TOLLMASTER wrote:

Party for the Animals? I'm trying to decide if that's a party that supports animal suffrage, or one composed of former Animal House members. Either way, I support their seatage in your Dutch government.

they want to put animal rights in our constitution! they're not alone in that! my sister voted for them and they're kinda cool as is my sister.

TOLLMASTER wrote:

Also, Asian chick in Dutchlaund? LIES

meet Mariko:

i saw a one minute interview with her yesterday and i predict we'll be hearing from her.

glitch · Posts: 216

bort wrote:

Ass-leader is a man btw.

wrote:

kiss my ass

bort wrote:

That was disappointing.

sorry that i didn't mention that. i hope Mariko makes up for it?

!= · Posts: 163

Do we expect IC to be a terrorist target now? I reckon it has already started. Hidden terrorists cells. Is there any way for example, to know that you are who you claim to be? Is legal step still legal? Is firenze really a RR lover? I'm sure everybody noticed strange things lately.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Go with the Groan-Links. They sound the least harmful to life, planet, and society.

Captain EO · Posts: 371

aderack wrote:

Go with the Groan-Links. They sound the least harmful to life, planet, and society.

Key word is sound.

aderack · Posts: 5018

Sound is an important element to words, yes.

Captain EO · Posts: 371

aderack wrote:

Sound is an important element to words, yes.

oh hohohoho

But a group of elitist effete greens.... guh

and as for

glitch · Posts: 216

Captain EO wrote:

SP - ex-communists gone socialist. very popular, anti-EU, about as left-wing as it gets.

I don't quite get this. Socialism is almost universally understood to be the lesser stage of communism, so really, this is not as left wing as it gets. I'm interested to hear more about them. Are they Trotskyist by chance?

i think they used to be Trotskyist, but that was before my time.
they aren't the epitome of leftness anymore, but still quite left. and since the Dutch Communist Party is defunct nowadays, they're the most left-wing party one can vote for. i guess it would've been more accurate to say that they're as left-wing as it gets in Dutch politics nowadays.

dhex · Posts: 2963

is there still any impact from the theo van gogh murder / the whole hirsi ali thing? or is that too much old news?

glitch · Posts: 216

dhex wrote:

is there still any impact from the theo van gogh murder /

some small parties occasionally still hate on the (now ex-)cabinet over the way they handled that, and it caused a surge in popularity of Wilder's anti-muslim party. if it weren't for that murder he definitly wouldn't have scored 9 seats now.

aside from that discrimination against muslims increased. some mosques got vandalised. the murderer is one of the first people to be being prosecuted as a terrorist here.

dhex wrote:

/ the whole hirsi ali thing?

glitch wrote:

...blew up this cabinet past summer because the VVD's minister of immigration tried to kick a Somalian member of her own party out of the country.

well that's her! ^-^
so yeah that was pretty major. if it weren't for her we wouldn't have has elections yesterday.
eventually she was allowed to stay, but decided to move to the US anyway.
so uhm, handle with care, she's explosive.

glitch · Posts: 216

aderack wrote:

Go with the Groan-Links. They sound the least harmful to life, planet, and society.

i did! but they're living proof that a subtle/realistic approach doesn't really get you them anywhere in a democracy. i'm happy to see they're at least popular on IC though!

Loolapaloozer wrote:

winkerwanker wrote:

Needs less political parties

Heh. Here in Brazil we have 26, and other 10 in process of eligibility / legitimity.

gotta catch 'em all?
does that function or do you guys have elections every other day?
if it works then well, our government could use a little workshop or something...

dhex · Posts: 2963

Hot Stott Bot · Posts: 2097

I think it is a tough call between the one with the ass and the winker option.

glitch · Posts: 216

dhex wrote:

so uhm, handle with care, she's explosive.

HIGH VOLTAGE

man, the van gogh thing got such little play here. it was like a repeat of the rushdie thing. minus the berkeley bombing, i mean.

if he'd been gay, though, hmmm. that's a double-bind that would have been hilarious to watch, at least in america.

lol @ electric six ^-^

well we had Pim Fortuyn who was anti-muslim, flamboyantly gay, totally gonna be our new minister-president back then AND got killed shortly before elections.
just not by a muslim. :/